TheManInTheFedora
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RE: Soy turns you into a woman
01-29-2018 1:12 PM
(01-29-2018 12:40 PM)cpwhite Wrote: 50+ and after taking Zinc + Boron ......... and a DIMM supplement to keep my Est overall as low as possible.
Good on the zinc, but the boron is a double edged sword. It does raise test in the short run, but it also raises estrogens, too. If low on saliva tests and/or blood tests, DHEA and (DHEAS) may be a consideration. However, it can metabolize into both test and est and we can't control which one and how much. Our bodies decide. Years ago in the US, test precursors like Androstenedione were available OTC from supplement stores and these could be useful.
Rather than oral supplements which have to go through the liver via first pass, many of these were also sold as a transdermal gel which avoided that burden. The oral supplements also had the limitation of being short lived. The transdermals avoided taxing the liver and they would prolong the raise in testosterone much like a slow IV drip. One could boost one's test level to the upper high mark within 72 hours and it would stay fixed there as long as one applied to various thin skin areas on a rotating basis so as to avoid over saturation. Of course, a hormone holiday could be done once a month to also guard against over saturation e.g. taking a break from application one weekend a month. So, it's good that you are using a TD cream/gel for your progest supplementation to oppose Est.
Unfortunately nowadays, the test precursor creams have been banned. One can only get either them or even direct test gel/cream via prescription.
Short of getting a prescription aromatase inhibitor, the DIM (metabolite of Indole 3 Carbinol, found in crucifer vegetables e.g., broccoli) is actually a good idea. It not only clears/antagonizes estradiol (making it a less potent form which acts like an antioxidant) it helps free testosterone which may be bound by sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). The SHBG tends to increase with age. Just don't take it with caffeine as it competes with the same enzymes that deal with caffeine. Taking them together can make you more alert/nervous than normal.
Of course, one would also seek to minimize excess adipose tissue (body fat) which can also convert test to est via aromatase.
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01-29-2018 1:12 PM |
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cpwhite
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RE: Soy turns you into a woman
01-29-2018 4:44 PM
(01-29-2018 1:12 PM)TheManInTheFedora Wrote: Good on the zinc, but the boron is a double edged sword. It does raise test in the short run, but it also raises estrogens, too. If low on saliva tests and/or blood tests, DHEA and (DHEAS) may be a consideration. However, it can metabolize into both test and est and we can't control which one and how much. Our bodies decide. Years ago in the US, test precursors like Androstenedione were available OTC from supplement stores and these could be useful.
Rather than oral supplements which have to go through the liver via first pass, many of these were also sold as a transdermal gel which avoided that burden. The oral supplements also had the limitation of being short lived. The transdermals avoided taxing the liver and they would prolong the raise in testosterone much like a slow IV drip. One could boost one's test level to the upper high mark within 72 hours and it would stay fixed there as long as one applied to various thin skin areas on a rotating basis so as to avoid over saturation. Of course, a hormone holiday could be done once a month to also guard against over saturation e.g. taking a break from application one weekend a month. So, it's good that you are using a TD cream/gel for your progest supplementation to oppose Est.
Unfortunately nowadays, the test precursor creams have been banned. One can only get either them or even direct test gel/cream via prescription.
Short of getting a prescription aromatase inhibitor, the DIM (metabolite of Indole 3 Carbinol, found in crucifer vegetables e.g., broccoli) is actually a good idea. It not only clears/antagonizes estradiol (making it a less potent form which acts like an antioxidant) it helps free testosterone which may be bound by sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). The SHBG tends to increase with age. Just don't take it with caffeine as it competes with the same enzymes that deal with caffeine. Taking them together can make you more alert/nervous than normal.
Of course, one would also seek to minimize excess adipose tissue (body fat) which can also convert test to est via aromatase.
Thanks Fedora, lots of good stuff to unpack there! Alas, I miss the transdermal days of the early 2000's but mostly for the transdermal application of 4AD which of course was awesomeness in powder form.
I believe the Progesterone and DIMM are keeping the Est in check and while the T levels are perfect they arent in the basement and enough to get me by without doing prescription HRT.
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01-29-2018 4:44 PM |
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MMM
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RE: Soy turns you into a woman
02-02-2018 4:00 PM
(01-29-2018 12:40 PM)cpwhite Wrote: 50+ and after taking Zinc + Boron you can feel a difference in the way you carry it which leads me to believe in conjunction to the studies that my Test is boosting.
However I do prefer scientific evidence so in the past year I have has 2x saliva hormone tests taken as part of an inquiry into HRT and my results came back so screwed up (re: 30 year old healthy male) Dr suggested I do a 2nd test. Now while I believe and studies show that Zinc + Boron increase free testosterone I believe the actual biggest bag for the buck product you can purchase over the counter is topical progesterone (I use life-flo) that in and of itself has stopped estrogen dominance in my case and has greatly helped to restore balance. On top of that I generally alternate days with this and a DIMM supplement to keep my Est overall as low as possible.
Hey, CP ... is that the Life-Flo Progesta-Care with Natural Progesterone Body Cream for Women?
If so, how long have you been using it, and do you have a favorite application spot, or are you changing spots as directed?
Any other MANLY MEN out there experimenting with Progeterone Body Cream to control estrogen?
Mucho thanks!!!
For those who are reading up on the subject:
I am MORE than a sausage with feet, but you, Miss, since you're sexy, you can treat me as such if you want! ALL NIGHT LONG!!
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2018 4:13 PM by MMM.)
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02-02-2018 4:00 PM |
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TheManInTheFedora
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RE: Soy turns you into a woman
02-03-2018 9:19 AM
(02-03-2018 7:10 AM)Hannibal Wrote: I am only using pomegranate to boost my testosterone level.
Yes, I remember that at least one listmate mentioned this last year or so. Good info.
The study failed to specifically mention the amount of juice consumed by the volunteers; they only mentioned the brand namely pomegreat.
Hannibal, how much of the juice do you drink and how often? Can you mention the brand? Is it pure pomegranate or a mix? Other listmates who use pomegranate, please chime in on this.
I looked at Pomegreat's webpage and it says that their juice product is actually a mixture of pomegranate and aronia (chokeberry). Somehow, I feel that they should have used pure pomegranate to avoid uncertainty.
Aronia or chokeberry is also a very healthy fruit being very high on the ORAC (Oxygen Radical Absorbance Capacity) units, a unit of measurement for antioxidant content.
Here's a nice list of ORAC values for fruits, supplements and herbs. Interestingly, Astaxanthin is also listed which we know is the key ingredient of Swoon. Interesting that it helps with ADHD.
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02-03-2018 9:19 AM |
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TheManInTheFedora
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RE: Soy turns you into a woman
02-03-2018 11:35 AM
(02-03-2018 11:10 AM)GoergeFocky Wrote: Estrogens are growth-promoting stress hormones that are needed for a range of physiological functions in a very narrow frame and context.
Thanks for the insight. I also feel with the data being available that the isoflavones present in many foods are thought to be 1/500 the strength of full blown estradiol. Hence, these 'estrogen mimics' can actually bind and occupy cell receptor sites thereby preventing the full blown estrogens from binding/exerting their influence. This can be a good thing for males. I think that eating the occasional asian entree which has some soy sauce in it won't really impact/disrupt male hormonal makeup. With all things, I think the keyword is moderation or limitation. Soy has disadvantages towards thyroid function i.e., goitrogen.
The question that has puzzled researchers regarding estrogen in males - what is the function of estrogen in males? Whereas the hormone of libido in both sexes is testosterone, it is unclear what estrogen does for us males. Many years ago, I had read a scientific document that some hypothesize that it may be necessary for intelligence in males as well as spermatogenesis:
The above article also suggests that est may play some role in libido as well.
George, what do you think?
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02-03-2018 11:35 AM |
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