Post: #11

It has been answered a dozen times in a dozen different ways, if you just can't seem to understand there's nothing I can do to help you ubnderstand.

Let me try one more time though, and this time I'll write real slow:

The......thread.....had.....already.....been.....deleted.....and.......Mara.....had.....already.....resolved.....the....,.issue.....on......her.....forum.....There.....was.....absolutly.....no.....reason.....to.....drag.....it.....out.....of.....its.....grave.....unless.....the.....intent.....was.....just.....to.....retaliate......and.....punish.

You can ask the same question over and over 10 more times, but my responses isn't going to change or waiver.

Post: #12

Okay, the problem is that you're begging the question.

You're saying that quoting the LP thread was abusive because you think I meant to be abusive.

It actually doesn't matter whether that was my intent -- although, if I wanted to be abusive I could certainly think of better ways to do it.

The fact of the matter is that there is nothing abusive about quoting a thread from another forum. I did not misrepresent the thread or take it out of context, or even editorialize about it. I simply reposted it so that we could discuss it here. That does not constitute a "flame, slander, defame or otherwise abuse." I encourage you to argue otherwise.

Post: #13

Justify your actions any way you want, but the fact is that after Ail decided her thread was not a good idea and deleted it, you decided that you weren't going to let her get away with it and dragged everything over here.

While you may be technically right in that we cannot PROVE your intent, actions speak louder than words, and Beccah and I both believe your intent was solely retaliation. We gave you every opportunity to rectify the situation, and you absolutlely refused.

It is abusive and retaliatory when a person shows remorse for their actions and another individual refuses to let it go, and continues to beat them over the head for it. That is exactly what you did, no matter how much you try to sugarcoat it!

This conversation is over! You are now only trying to make the forum look bad and doing everything you can to do so. You next step is being placed in moderation and having every post reviewed before posting.

You are welcome to post as a member here and obey the policies that everyone else does. And, you have contributed a great deal to the forum and become one of its most valuable members, but your actions of today, much to our regret, forced us part ways as partners in running the forum. If it had been you or any other member that posted a thread which you later regretted and decided to delete, we would not let another member drag it out of the dirt just to start a flame war either.

Understand it or not, we promised as much to our members, and we are going to stand behind our promises.

Post: #14

I didn't repost something that Ail recanted. I reposted the content that is still live and which she has continued to defend. And it had begun to generate valuable conversation.

The fact is that today you censored a thread that did not need to be censored. It was a perfectly valid conversation. I don't know what else to say about it.

Post: #15

I have to agree that I didn't interpret dbot's quoting of the conversation over here as abusive at all. If it was meant as an attempt to get back at Ail, I find it a rather subtle form of revenge. Whatever the forum rules state, this is censorship over perceived intent, and that is far too subjective for my taste. As dbot stated, he did not explicitly (or implicitly) abuse Ail, attack her, call her names, or anything else that I could interpret as grounds for censorship. I'm not stepping in to argue on dbot's behalf. I'm simply stating my opinion on the issue as I perceived it, after having read all of the posts concerning it by Ail, dbot, Mark, and Beccah. But I also have to agree with Mark and Beccah, in that I want this all to be over and for everyone to be friends again. Now, everyone please relax. There is science to be done.

Post: #16

Im just going to state my opinion here.

1. Anyone can delete their post but by doing so, they will also delete other members discussion on the matter. The way to get around this is just to let them edit the post and deleting the content, instead of allowing the deletion of the whole thread.

2. I (and other members) dont see why dbot's ''copy and paste'' is an abusive act. I see no one getting insulted.

Post: #17

Since I can't see what the content was that created the situation, I'm baffled by all of this and it seems very unfortunate, I'm sorry that things escalated this far.

I hope this de-escalates and things go back to normal real soon... everyone was getting along so famously...good things were happening...

Mark & Becca, can you just put dbot on probation or something and re-institute him after x days once everyone has made nicey-nicey with each other and a discussion of protocols and decision-making processes is mutually agreed upon?

I sense that there is some disagreement about what is allowable and what is not, but all the admins appear to currently be invested with the authority to take actions directly that are unrecoverable.

Perhaps putting a stop-gap in place where post or thread deletion puts that into a moderated view before it can be actually removed and requires majority of admins to agree to delete or at least discuss prior to permanent removal?

I hope that good processes could prevent this kind of altercation and emotional escalation in the future.

Also I think having an odd number of admins for a majority is necessary on a dynamic social construct such as this forum.

I would hate to lose dbot's confidence in this forum and his valuable contributions, and I hate that things have escalated to this point, I want to see a path that gets back to where things were prior to the incident and everyone feels that their issues have been acknowledged and addressed to everyone's satisfaction, at least within the boundaries of this forum. Please.

Love you all!
2Soon2Care

Post: #18

I prety much agree with what everyone said, with the only exception being to say that the thread was not meant to be abusive. Ail already showed remorse and deleted her thread here, there wasn't any reason to drudge everything back up.

As I've told dbot publicly and privately, I like the guy, I really do, but this wasn't the first time we've had to ask him to rethink his actions. The difference this time was that he stood his ground and what he believed was right. In the past he's admitted that sometimes he can be overzealous or go overboard, and would back down.

I really hate to say it, and don't ever want this this situation between admins, or in any other managerial position for that matter, but it became Beccah and I against dbot, and he refused to back down.

Right or wrong, we did what we felt was best for the forum and the members: If any of you were in a position of having written a thread that pissed people off then recanted and deleted the thread, I don't think you would want another member drudging it back up to open you to further abuse, would you?

The fact that the member deleted their own thread shows they decided better after having posted it. Is that not satisfaction enough? I am not sayig that it was right for that member to delete the thread after replies had been posted. IT WAS NOT! And, the ability to do so has now been removed. But, 2 wrongs do not make a right.

Whether he realizes it or not, I still like dbot, he's an awesome guy and I really hope he sticks around! And yeah, I'd eventually even like for him to come back as an admin. Before today, running the forum was the easiest its ever been, and dbot and Beccah have been godsends, to both me and the forum!

But, admins do have to stick together, and when we cannot all come together with the same decision it has to be understood that the majority viewpoint is respected and acted upon. Otherwise everyone is acting alone and there's no reason to have an admin team.

I hate that this had to get dragged out and paraded in front of everyone, but if nothing else hopefully it show that we wll defend and protect our members, even when they may be in the wrong.

I don't kow about the rest of you, but I kind of see ALL of you as extended family, and not even another family member is going to try to harm another.

Post: #19

1) Ail did not "recant" or show "remorse." As she stated in the thread on LP, which I quoted in full, she deleted the thread because she did not like the replies. She continued to stand by her actions and position, and as far as I know she still does. So no recanting has been done, and no remorse has been shown. Only censorship.

2) I did not drudge her deleted thread back up, I reposted a live, active thread that the member in question continued to contribute to. Her post here was basically a hit-and-run, and I didn't want to go over and discuss it at LP, because I'm not a member of LP, I'm a member of PheroTruth. So I brought it here. And if Ail objected to me doing that, she didn't ever tell me about it.

Post: #20

So let me get this right, you're standing tough on a viewpoint she is expressing on another forum and dragging it over her to open another discussion on it?

I haven't read her thread over there, and might very well disagree with her viewpoint if I did and feel that she is in the wrong.

But, why does that make it ok to bring it over here and drudge it up on this forum? Unless you feel that more people will back you up over here and lash into her about it?

Again, I'll ask how your thread benefited anyone, and was meant to be anything more than abusive toward her?

dbot, from my undersanding she attacked you over at LP, and you have every right to attack her back, over there! But, not here at pherotruth where she deleted any reference to what was said on that forum.

I'll say the exact same thing I asked of you before. If you want to defend yourself here that's fine. Delete all the quotes and instead post individual statements made that you take offense to and rebutt them. Do not post entire threads and try to duplicate what is going on somewhere else.