Post: #1

I had not ever noticed this until I was looking at the site today. I found it very interesting and wanted to share and get feedback on this:

A note on Androstenone

We don't use Androstenone (5a-androst-16-en-3-one) in our blends.

We will continue to add this element upon request for a modest charge. And we will provide the molecule in spray or concentrate form upon request as long as there is a demand for it.

Androstenone serves as a sex pheromone in pigs and elephants and a few other animals, where it is produced in the gonads of those animals and excreted during mating season.

Androstenone is also a bacterial by-product of the break down of human pheromones in sweat by skin bacteria.

Androstenone is not produced in the human body or excreted by the human body, or used as a neuro-steroid by the human brain.

We haven't been able to find any research literature that supports the belief that this is a human pheromone., and we've found no scientific literature to support the claims that it is a human female sexual attractant.

The available research data strongly suggests that this steroid molecule affects the trigeminal nerve pathways (1) and can be a trigeminal nerve irritant. (The trigeminal nerve evolved as part of the body's warning system, sensing potentially noxious stimuli.)

Over 70% of women find the odor of Androstenone repulsive.

There are many ancedotal reports of OD-type reactions to Androstenone including anxiety, negative emotional reactions, muscle spasm, and anger when exposed to a certain level of the steroid.

For these reasons we don't design blends that contain it.

A note on Methoxyestratetraenone

We don't use Methoxyestratetraenone in our blends.

Methoxyestratetraenone (1,3,5(10),7-Estratetraen-3-one Methyl Ether) is an equilin estrogen that is a naturally occurring hormone in horses.

In humans the only naturally occuring form of Methoxyestratetraenone is in extremely inflammed tissue, such as found in breast cancer. Methoxyestratetraenone , when formed in human tissue, is very difficult for the liver to break downand excrete from the body.

There is some concern about equillin and equillin derviatives as being potentially carcinogenic to human female reproductive and breast tissue.(2)(3)(4)

In humans Methoxyestratetraenone may have some estrogenic neuro-steroid properties, but since it is not a naturally occuring human pheromone and there are safety issue to its use we do not use it in our blends. And since safety is one of our most important concerns, we will not provide it for consumer use.

footnotes

1. On the trigeminal percept of androstenone and its implications on the rate of specific anosmia. Boyle JA, Lundström JN, Knecht M, Jones-Gotman M, Schaal B, Hummel T. Montreal Neurological Institute, McGill University, Montreal, Canada. J Neurobiol. 2006 Nov;66(13):1501-10.

2. Potential Mechanisms of Estrogen Quinone Carcinogenesis, Judy L. Bolton and Gregory R. J. Thatcher, Department of Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmacognosy (M/C 781), College of Pharmacy, University of Illinois at Chicago, 833 South Wood Street, Chicago, Illinois, 60612-7231Chem. Res. Toxicol., 2008, 21 (1), pp 93–101

3. Synthesis of the Equine Estrogen Metabolites 2-Hydroxyequilin and 2-Hydroxyequilenin, Fagen Zhang and Judy L. Bolton, Department of Medicinal Chemistry and Pharmacognosy (M/C 781), College of Pharmacy, University of Illinois at Chicago, 833 South Wood Street, Chicago, Illinois 60612-7231Chem. Res. Toxicol., 1999, 12 (2), pp 200–203

4. Detection of estrogen DNA-adducts in human breast tumor tissue and healthy tissue by combined nano LC-nano ES tandem mass spectrometry. J. Embrechtsa, F. Lemièrea, W. Van Dongena, E. L. Esmansa, Corresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author, P. Buytaertb, E. Van Marckc, M. Kockxd and A. Makare. Journal of the American Society for Mass Spectrometry, Volume 14, Issue 5, May 2003, Pages 482-491

Post: #2

Thanks for the info

Post: #3

Thanx!

Post: #4

Diane doesn't use anything in her mixes that she doesn't like! And can always seem to find supporting evidence against any of those molecules!

Diane Wrote:We haven't been able to find any research literature that supports the belief that this is a human pheromone., and we've found no scientific literature to support the claims that it is a human female sexual attractant.

Yeah , Androstenone isn't a sexual attractant. Give me a fucking break! :laugh3:

As far as I know, the only molecule that has been proven to have pheromonal properties is Androstadienone , but all of us who use pheromones know otherwise.

I guess EVERY other pheromone company is wrong, and we should all bow down to Daine, then queen of all things phero.

Post: #5

(05-20-2010 7:27 PM)mark-in-dallas Wrote:  Diane doesn't use anything in her mixes that she doesn't like! And can always seem to find supporting evidence against any of those molecules!

Yeah , Androstenone isn't a sexual attractant. Give me a fucking break! :laugh3:

I guess EVERY other pheromone company is wrong, and we should all bow down to Daine, then queen of all things Pheromone.

I thought it quite odd, given as far as I know EVERY sexual Pheromone product contains none! I have not really explored using None as a sexual attractant. My wife is one of those that can smell it a mile away. She does not want to be near me, let alone do me! LOL

P75 gets past her nose defense though!

I love Instant Jerk, because it well... makes me a jerk! When I need to steam roll and dominate a situation with no questions I pile on the Instant Jerk and A314. It works. I understand about ODs, I have experienced it several times, so I get where Diane is coming from. If she can make successful mixes without it then +1 for her! That may also explain why with Pursuit there is a lack of the regularly reported IOIs (hair flipping and whatnot) no NONE!

Post: #6

I LOVE Diane's Feel The Love blend because I've seen it work on a very sexual level but not in the usual ~none club em' over the head way. I haven't missed androstenone in any of her mixes.

I love Aqua Vitae and other blends that are built around androstenone but I also find that Diane's approach (while different from other companies) yields some fantastic results for me and that is all I care about. Is it in stock so I can buy it and does it work.

Thanks for sharing that Andrew, very interesting! I do like that she backed up her claims with reports with various studies (not that they would make sense to me anyhow.)

Post: #7

A relevant post by JVKohl in the Research forum suggests Diane's information isn't quite as self-serving as some would suggest.

http://pherotruth.com/Thread-Two-competi...62#pid8962

(04-07-2010 4:22 PM)jvkohl Wrote:  Grammer, K. (1993) 5 a androst 16en 3a on: A male pheromone? a brief report. Ethology and Sociobiology, 14, 201 208. -- presents evidence that human female's perceptions of the smell of androstenone from males varies over their cycle, which is interpreted as consistent with the loss of estrus serving to facilitate copulations outside of the pair bond. The negative rating of androstenone changes to a neutral response at the conceptive optimum around ovulation, which may facilitate female mate choice.

Because many products incorporate androstenone, I hope someone can find even a shred of evidence from a human study that suggests it is a human pheromone. Anecdotal evidence aside, who was the first to use it in a product and claim that it was a human pheromone. My research, beginning in the mid-1980's led me to avoid it, and I've seen nothing since then that would change my mind. What are product users reading that I'm not?

James V. Kohl

Post: #8

(05-21-2010 6:56 AM)Data4 Wrote:  A relevant post by JVKohl in the Research forum suggests Diane's information isn't quite as self-serving as some would suggest.

http://pherotruth.com/Thread-Two-competi...62#pid8962

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing that, I hadn't seen it here before. :shy:

Post: #9

Data that has been around since 1993. Its pretty well known. JVKohl has never looked at Androstenone as a pheromone either from what I have read. I believe he was posting that way back in the Love Scent forum hayday.

However it does cause reactions from those exposed. Just because it has not been proven in a human study does not make it untrue. My anwser to that question is prove that its not, prove it has no effect.

Tisha

Post: #10

(05-21-2010 6:03 PM)Tisha Wrote:  Data that has been around since 1993. Its pretty well known. JVKohl has never looked at Androstenone as a pheromone either from what I have read. I believe he was posting that way back in the Love Scent forum hayday.

However it does cause reactions from those exposed. Just because it has not been proven in a human study does not make it untrue. My anwser to that question is prove that its not, prove it has no effect.

Tisha

Effect or no effect, positive effect or no positive effect it still does something so that means something. Remember when you wore cologne spiked with New Pheromone Additive and Instant Jerk (from what I remember) Data? Well, if I remember that post correctly you mentioned that you almost got into a fight with a co-worker LOL. And I've seen a lot of this with -none, agitation and what have you but I have also seen great IOI, so if -none does nothing then what gives? *Shrugs.*