Post: #21

(03-28-2012 11:43 PM)wiserd Wrote:  Hi Halo,

Could you explain this? Is it because of the water content of the vodka?

The water content of vodka will make the scent layer in the bottle. You'll have to shake it each time. If you don't mind shaking the bottle before each use it should be ok. Vodka doesn't have added scent, right? What you should never ever use is rubbing alcohol, because it has a strong odor of it's own and will destroy any perfume.

Everclear is better (if illegal) to use because it is 100% alcohol without any water.

Perfumer's Alcohol is best because it contains emollients that enable water, oil and alcohol to blend.

Post: #22

(03-29-2012 11:11 AM)Mara ~ Love Potion Wrote:  The water content of vodka will make the scent layer in the bottle. You'll have to shake it each time. If you don't mind shaking the bottle before each use it should be ok. Vodka doesn't have added scent, right? What you should never ever use is rubbing alcohol, because it has a strong odor of it's own and will destroy any perfume.

Everclear is better (if illegal) to use because it is 100% alcohol without any water.

Perfumer's Alcohol is best because it contains emollients that enable water, oil and alcohol to blend.

Thanks much, Mara! I didn't know about the emollients in perfumers alcohol. Though technically, everclear is 95% alcohol. You have to cut alcohol with some noxious chemicals to cheaply get it to 100%. So the quality of truly 100% alcohol is always a little suspect.

Post: #23

Thanks, Wiserd! I was unaware of that! Good to learn something new every day. Everclear is illegal in California - not allowed to be shipped into the state. I've never encountered it before in real life. (Though I tried very hard once, because I wanted to sell a facial refresher spray that was entirely of edible grade ingredients, but I was foiled in my pursuit!)

It's not legal for a perfumer to craft with drinkable alcohol. We have to by law use denatured alcohol of one sort or another, but a consumer can do what they wish for their own personal use.

There are several formulations of perfumer's alcohol for different perfumer's needs. Some will accept more water than others if you want to make a *splash* strength scent for yourself, for example. Others will allow different kinds of oils to blend together than normally wouldn't. For example, I sometimes use food grade flavor oils mixed with cosmetic grade scent oils. Those won't blend permanently in oil - they layer, but perfumer's alcohol will make them blend and you can produce a perfume strength spray.

Post: #24

Hey Mara,

Do you mind me asking... I have some scents from Camden Grey (What do you think of them? In retrospect, they seem kindof low quality...) They're not mixing well with alcohol at all, even when I add a tiny bit of dishwashing detergent as a surfactant. I have some perfumer's alcohol. But aside from a fixative, what should I be adding to these scents to turn them into perfumes/colognes?

Post: #25

(04-09-2012 7:00 PM)wiserd Wrote:  Hey Mara,

Do you mind me asking... I have some scents from Camden Grey (What do you think of them? In retrospect, they seem kindof low quality...) They're not mixing well with alcohol at all, even when I add a tiny bit of dishwashing detergent as a surfactant. I have some perfumer's alcohol. But aside from a fixative, what should I be adding to these scents to turn them into perfumes/colognes?

Wow, I have never heard of using dishwashing detergent in perfume! Where did you hear of that idea? What is it supposed to do?

I have not heard of Camden Grey either, sorry. Not batting very well here. But I do have an option to try for getting your oils to mix with alcohol.

Follow this link....


This product gets oil to mix with water, but it will also help it to mix with perfumer's alcohol. Some things won't blend no matter what you do, it depends what kind of base they are using and they rarely tell you - trade secrets - but you might try this product. When I have used it, I do not use the amount they say. I always start low and keep adding until everything turns clear. I don't think I have ever used as much as they recommend. This is a cosmetic grade product but I primarily use it for linen sprays or hair spritzes.

Good luck - let us know how it goes!

Post: #26

(04-10-2012 11:22 AM)Mara ~ Love Potion Wrote:  Wow, I have never heard of using dishwashing detergent in perfume! Where did you hear of that idea? What is it supposed to do?

I have no idea if it was a good idea or not, but from a chemistry angle it made sense. Detergents are surfactants. Surfactants reduce the surface tension of water, allowing it to mix with non-polar substances like oil. That's how it cleans things. (Imagine a molecule which can grab oil with its non-polar portion and water with its polar portion, binding them together. When you 'saponify' a fat, that's what you're making.)

Dishwashing detergent was non-scented and non-foaming (and readily available and cheap.) It may have required high heat to dissolve, though, which in retrospect was probably my issue. I suppose I might see if dishwashing detergent dissolved by heat will precipitate out when the heat is gone...


For the record, I have no idea about the safety or usefulness of dishwashing detergent in particular.

Thanks much for the link! I'll check it out as soon as I'm off work.

Post: #27

I couldn't get an ingredient list for the solution you linked to... Heating the detergent solution worked in dissolving the scent oil into a cloudy solution (colloid?) which remained suspended even when cool... The downside is that dishwashing detergent includes "enzymes" and I don't know what those will do now that the surface area of the scent oil has increased so dramatically.

If detergent doesn't dry or irritate the skin it doesn't look like it will be too harmful from what I read.

I guess the next step is seeing if I can get by with much less detergent... or if I can get my hands on an enzyme free surfactant. I'm starting to suspect if I make my own from powder I'll have an infinite supply... not that I could go through an infinite supply...

Post: #28

Wiserd? Why go through all the hassle? Why not just buy decent scent oils to begin with that WILL mix with alcohol and pheromones easily?

You are correct - they refuse to list or expose the ingredients in that solution which is why I rarely use it and prefer to use it only for linen sprays and such. I have asked them on the phone on multiple occasions to tell me what is in it but they just say TRADE SECRET and they are allowed by law to say that. They say, and it is marked on the bottle, that it is cosmetic grade, aka skin safe. I even asked Chris what he thinks might be in it and his guess was phlatalates, thus I would use it lightly and well diluted.

Post: #29

(04-11-2012 9:08 AM)Mara ~ Love Potion Wrote:  Wiserd? Why go through all the hassle? Why not just buy decent scent oils to begin with that WILL mix with alcohol and pheromones easily?

You are correct - they refuse to list or expose the ingredients in that solution which is why I rarely use it and prefer to use it only for linen sprays and such. I have asked them on the phone on multiple occasions to tell me what is in it but they just say TRADE SECRET and they are allowed by law to say that. They say, and it is marked on the bottle, that it is cosmetic grade, aka skin safe. I even asked Chris what he thinks might be in it and his guess was phlatalates, thus I would use it lightly and well diluted.

I'm still learning this stuff and trying to figure what works and what doesn't. I didn't realize going in that there'd be a problem. But in the end, I like knowing if I find some scent I like that doesn't mix or diffuse the way I want what my options might be.

I REALLY don't want any phthalates on my skin. But I do appreciate the help.

Incidentally, heating the oil with detergent worked perfectly, except much of the tiny bit of detergent I used precipitated out afterwards. So I can get away with using truly microscopic amounts of the stuff...

Diffusion is only middling, though. I'll have to start experimenting on how different surfactants and related molecules effect diffusion so I can get more control over that aspect of things.

Post: #30

Wait...are you heating the fragrance oil? Heat will ruin a fragrance. Rancid fragrance oil is not so great.