Post: #21

(03-27-2013 1:13 AM)as33156 Wrote:  The best advice is to consult real physicians before doing anything type of dieting. Ones with real doctorates who have graduated from reall medical schools as proper anyone can take a few classes and call themselves a dietician these days.

In carpentery they always say measure twice and cut once. The same should apply for issues regarding your health. Speak to the professions and have test run before you do anything gastric like fasting for 24hrs.

Best of luck & remember! your not an alien hehe.

I respectfully disagree. (I do agree about measure twice, cut once though!).
As someone who has been researching these areas extensively over the years, and frequented with other like-minded extensively too my thought is that the level of dietary training your average physician gets is appallingly low. Only 1/4 of schools meet the recommended requirements of 25 hours of instruction in this particular field.
Even for those who meet the 25 hours, that amount is ridiculously low to be in a position to dish out advise.
Even MD's in Gastroenterology, who are supposed to be very associated with nutrition, receives (by their own account!) very poor nutritional training.

If doctors have extensive knowledge of nutrition then it is because of a personal interest and not because of medical training.

If counselling a real physician who specialises in nutrition then by all means, they are very likely very knowledgeable.

If anything it is pretty natural for humans to "not eat" for some extended hours, be it 12 or even 24 where you eat dinner, go to bed and then only not eat for half the next day. It's more natural than stuffing your face every third hour.

You have been scared of the concept I think, because you had a lady friend who did "fasting", but it's apparent that she was starving herself. All my sympathy goes to her, but she obviously did it very wrong.

Post: #22

We can go back and forth about this but at the end of the day the best thing is to use common sense. So if she uses that all should be fine no matter which route she takes. It's her body so her level of caution maybe higher or lower then mines and results vary for people.

There is a reason people are required to be professionals in a certain field when giving medical advice.

Post: #23

(03-27-2013 2:28 AM)as33156 Wrote:  We can go back and forth about this but at the end of the day the best thing is to use common sense. So if she uses that all should be fine no matter which route she takes. It's her body so her level of caution maybe higher or lower then mines and results vary for people.

There is a reason people are required to be professionals in a certain field when giving medical advice.

Of course. But common sense was what I was trying to espouse. You (as in We) can't know everything. Therefore I think it is important to know which sources we can and can't trust, as that ends up constituting most of our knowledge at hand. As such I was saying don't put faith into a diploma on the wall or a he said, she said story, but rather someone with passion and quantifiable credentials. That seems like common sense to me.

Post: #24

Fasting can and often is bad. Let's be realistic. But so is any diet if not done with the proper knowledge base. When my friends diet, they consult me. Even nurses and kids going to school to be a doctor come to me, because no matter what a professor or doctor tells you, I simply tell people to use common sense and listen to their body. I then point them into the right direction (Book, author, or article) to find the credible information.

I can assure you that if you take the diet of the top ten Boxers, Body Builders and Wrestlers to a dietician and a doctor they will laugh in your face and call them 'bad' diets. Vast amount of calories, so little calories, types of food eaten, meal timing, no carbs, etc. All funky, but the fact is it gets you body into 'ideal' condition.

The right specialist in the field will know the ins and outs. But most wont. On the flip side, most dieters do not either. ALL diets work, people just do them wrong.

Fasting, as I advocate, it not a fly by night strategy. I learned the hard way when I need to eat, when I do not, what I can eat, what I cant to be able to compete and make weight. When I do not eat I have more energy and am more focused, then I re-feed. Along the way I had doctors tell me it was a bad idea and it wasnt healthy. But my blood levels, cholesterol, liver enzymes, and lungs were in better shape than before when doing an IF to compete in MMA at the highest level I got to.

It is all anecdotal evidence, I know. My own results, which understandably should be doubted, my friends who find success on this diet, Lyle McDonald's clients, and Martin are but a few dozen at best who report these results.

The difference from me doing this is I do get my blood work done, I do get my allergy tests re-done, I do go to sport specialists and so on. I also have/had nutritionists who work with boxers and fighters and get the best results. Many do not follow what they learned in school, but they need the credential. When they tell me to do something on a diet, I do it. I was checking in a few times a week on my first run.

Now, I do it solo. But I have the reference experience to know what does and does not work for me and what feeling means what in my body.

Lethargic, sleepy, irritable, light headed, brain fog and sore muscles are common symptoms of the massive carb depletion from the Lyle McDonald RFL protocol. It sucks, but it is part of the reduced glucose and Ketosis conversion in the brain. I know this. But if a new user gets this, goes to their doctor in panic the doctor will tell them to stop the diet as it makes them feel horrid. But, it is just Ketosis, a natural process.

Food for thought (Pun intended).

A doctors advice may not always be best, but the medical expertise and monitoring is needed when you do something drastic to your body. That is the most common sense a person can have.

Post: #25

Good post Kimba.

Post: #26

(03-27-2013 12:55 AM)masterofpuppets Wrote:  Now I,'m all around the board talking about fasting. .lol Oh god, don't label me as "the fasting guy".

Regardless, what I wanted to comment on was that you don't have to nix it as a habit. Just do it with a logical and scientific approach. I posted something in Buzzy's log that you could read.

Generally people limit their fasting periods to 24 hours max. So a couple of times a week they do maybe two 24 hours of fasting (from dinner until next dinner). Or another approach is to fast until noon every other day - breaking the fast with a normal meal - NOT with a huge meal trying to devour everything in sight. It takes tweaking of course.

So, it's not about juice-fast, green tea fast or whatever load of BS, which I fully agree is harmful to the body.

Your body NEEDS good nutrients so in all your meals during the week you would eat fiberous carbs, good amounts of protein and lots of healthy fats. (the ratios differing with each meal).

/sorry for thread hijacking..

I'm a female, I've read several accounts of women having issues with intermittent fasting. Women report issues with their menstruation. Though some seem to have success with it there are a good number it didn't work for.

In fact, male and female rats responded differently to intermittent fasting. The female rats stopped ovulating and menstruating. The male rats became more fertile while the female, intfertile.

" In response to 40% CR, females became emaciated, ceased cycling, underwent endocrine masculinization, exhibited a heightened stress response, increased their spontaneous activity, improved their learning and memory, and maintained elevated levels of circulating brain-derived neurotrophic factor."

"The testicular weight was unaffected by any of the diets. In contrast, both CR diets and the IF diet caused a decrease in the size of the ovaries."

" Uterine activity was monitored daily with vaginal smear tests; cyclicity was scored as regular, irregular, or absent. The mild energy-restriction diets (20% CR and IF) significantly increased the proportion of animals displaying irregular cycling patterns, whereas the 40% CR animals displayed an almost complete loss of estrous cyclicity."




Unfortunately there aren't many human studies, but there are enough reports of women having issues with IF that makes me wary of turning it into a lifestyle.

Post: #27

On top of that it is also my experience that females have a harder time fasting. They simply feel more hunger due to ghrelin amongst other things. It's a tool in a toolbox.

Post: #28

Well, I am in a place to start my diet. I am 210, and with creeping health problems I know its time to go hard!

40 days and 40 pounds. I have done it before and will do it again. I will log my progress and failures in this thread.

Tomorrow will be a fun day.

Post: #29

Good luck with your diet Kimba! I started mine on the 1st ;-)

Cheers,

Buzzy

Post: #30

I can see a difference in the mirror now, and the scale says 15 pounds, but I am retaining a LOT of water, belly and man breasts are enlarged. Over all, it is worth it.

I had pizza today, no food, cold and chillin' with some buddys was enough to make me eat. Felt great, until I got carb sweats and I puffed up a couple hours after eating. No carbs + carbs randomly messes up the mojo.