Post: #31

Nobody hate me for doing this, but after reading this response to why $1-10k for a bottle of P75 might be justified, i wanted to comment. I may have typed too much in response to a somewhat meandering post.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  Nope dude, he's the operations manager. She handed the reins over to him to manage front office ever since there were some incidents and spates that involved her and Mharris' safety.. .

I do not beleive that they are mutually exclusive, hair club for men president claimed he was also a member, could the OWNER of a company that is listed as having 4 employees also be the operations manager? Did the BBB just get it wrong, or did Jasmine go to the BBB and change the name of the owner to JSL for strategy? see link above.
There could be more than 4 [John Sebastion Lavalle Jr., Jasmine, Steve, Michael Harris, Mickaela, peon1, peon2, peon3, peon4]

I must point out how these 2 statements quoted below don't work together with statements like:
1- AD's business model is top notch, keeping consumers in, retaining loyalty.
2- I was forced to look for alternatives,(a case like atrione or etrione for P86?)
These statements kind of say to me that if AD had their financial house in order they would provide their products so they wouldn't lose customers, or have customers trying to figure out their formulas for fear that AD is going bankrupt and the secrets will go to the grave with them, but since they don't got the finances in order, Gslinger goes to other suppliers for the mones.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  AD has an incredible business model in my opinion, NLP or not they know their stuff. Shortages, limited releases and exclusive products are all techniques used by companies to stay ahead of the game and maximise demand. I don't know if shortages are used by AD but their system of keeping consumers in as well as retaining customer loyalty is top notch. A degree of social engineering and programming by companies, manipulating perception, positioning, everything is business.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  ...because I"m limited by capital I was forced to look for alternatives and I actually found some that actually worked. I was initially skeptical and fearful at first but... I found that there are also other good products out there.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  AD seems to be the market leader right now due to intelligent strategy and manuevring (those of you who like reading threads to find scoops and juicy bits can also keep in mind that when you read, take note on how people write and angle things, how things are presented, meant to be interpreted and its probable intent. I pretty much enjoyed myself looking at how AD has evolved over the years as a textbook model of selling niche products online) and they have first mover advantage when it comes to rolling out products as well as leading the direction of the phero industry. I liken them to being the Ferrari of pheromones, expensive, but they work.

How does P75 work? Is it the Ferrari of pheromones? This thread is about paying $9,999.99 for P75. Ferrari has a waiting list to sell their top models at their price. How many people are in line to pay $9,999.99 from AD, right now, this second, compared to Ferrari's waiting list? I don't think there would be a waiting list, they would sell it as fast as they could, shown by jasmine's post who said the shortage was just $$$ flow problems. FOLLOW THE LINK READ THE POST.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  Transparency in itself is a marketing tool,... "Do we want to trust whatever they tell us this product does and not know if there's the real deal in it or do we want to find a product that we know what goes inside of it"

Good question. "DO WE WANT TO FIND A PRODUCT THAT WE KNOW WHAT GOES INSIDE OF IT?"
After copulingate wasn't settled, I guess we CAN NOT trust that these Commercial Line mixes don't change from batch to batch. I'm pretty sure they have tweaked most all of them as shown by the version numbers, and changed the formulas of all the commercial line over time.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  ...it is the companies' responsibility to keep us happy so they can get our dollars.

Is Gslinger happy enough with P75 to give them the $$$'s ($9,999.99)? I don't think I am that happy.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  But there is quality to the pedigree, I have expressed severe discontent with AD before and they have promptly fixed things for me and found ways to make me happy. They have always kept to their word at least where I'm concerned and delivery is consistent, reliable and swift, even if delivery cost is covered by the high costs. They have kept to their promises and not reneged or implemented sudden changes in pricing policies I am content that their products do work wonders for me...]

I thought this post WAS about the sudden changes in pricing policy. You are saying that they have not made the changes, but the $9,999.99 change seemed sudden.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  I'm happy to say that I'm happy spending my money with AD

But did you spend the money for P75? I will guess you did not order it after the sudden price change.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  As far as I know myself I'm a bargain hunter, but I believe in fair trades and fair deals.

I am guessing that AD's "incredible business model" and "intelligent strategy and manuevring" have kept you satisfied in the price for P75 being "FAIR". It seems that this doesn't synch up with your claim of bargain hunting vs. praise for AD's incredible/intelligent operations. Or maybe you got so caught up in thinking about shopping for computers online in the post above that you forgot the thread was about P75's price.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  I'm writing this not as an AD fan, but as a satisfied customer

Really? Are you satisfied by the Price of P75?
We are all freaking fans of AD here dude. I don't know of anyone who isn't a fan of AD products. But about the P75 price, that is what this post is about. Seems I snagged you by posting the link that shows that John Sebastian Lavalle Jr was the president. As listed by the BBB. And that Jasmine reports to him, as posted by Jasmine.

I see this as a statement, just showing the links to the facts I found. Why is it hard to beleive that a rich kid came in with his dad's money and became an investor/owner into a company that needed money bad, and still does. So much that P75 is $9,999.99.

WAR OUT-

Post: #32

i share your frustrations dexter but the truth of the matter is that we don't exactly have a choice.

i am expressing it by not buying anymore of their products.

Post: #33

Didn't JS say in his webcasts, that the 999$, or 9,999$ was just symbolic and that they didn't even sell the products for non-reporting users, like the checkout wouldn't work?

Anyways i do neither believe, that any of these putatives are extremely costly or hard to obtain. It's just that some don't sell good enough and some are simply too good/cost-effective.

Just for fun, let's calculate the cost of a gold 12.5mcg to-go phero-spray:
40 sprays in one Androtics to-go at 12.5micrograms/spray, makes 0.5miligrams of active ingredient. The gold-price is at: 33.33$/gram.
So a gold 5ml togo would cost androtics about 33.33$/2000= ~2cents per bottle in gold. They sell it for 28.95$.

Let's just say they need a custom synthesis for maybe like 3.000$. Then again, they can get a few grams for the 3k.
Let's say they only get 1 gram(which is quite pessimistic) from a custom synthesis of p88 for 3,000$. They can make 2000 togos out of that, if they put in 0.5miligram per bottle.
So they effectively pay 3,000$/2000 = 1.50$ per bottle. They sell it for 28.95$.
(Btw. i picked those numbers on the custom synthesis out of the blue. Just heard it's somewhere in that price range. I just imagine, that you have to pay a lot for the research behind the synthesis, but the cost for actual gram quantities of the molecule should be negligible.)
Sounds like a good deal to me. If they can sell more than 2000 pieces of ANY putative, they will never ever lose money on it. So why don't they just make a fortune on these putatives? Two reasons:

1) They can make more money with other products
Remember P88? Did you read the posts on it? People were ecstatic about it. In my opinion it was just too cheap and could have been turning a lot of the consumer line ad absurdum, as it was too effective. Who needs Turn Up The Heat, or Instant Gentleman, or Instant Openness, or even their golden cow A314 when p88 is so much more effective and enjoyable at a fraction of the price?



2) They are afraid that other companies will figure the molecules out
Imagine AD released the "miracle molecule". How long do you think that any of the other companies would need to get the chemical formula behind it? AD would maybe make some more money at first, but after a while they would face huge competition. Just imagine you get some chemist to find the chemical formula behind p88 and mass produce it.
I mean if there was the one "miracle molecule" and other companies had it too, there would be no need for the whole AD consumer line and a price war would start on just that molecule. It would ruin every phero company.
That's also why AD sells their putatives scented. It's harder to figure out the molecules in it, when there's also perfume molecules in it.

ADs arguments

Quote:P93 is "the standard" (which is basically chemist speak for "gold standard") of P88 . P93 we can always have remade with a small margin of error.

P88 was a commercial synthesis of the molecule that's no longer available, since the lab that it is now defunct.

Impure synthesis, which is the same as p93. So they tell you that good effects from p88 are from impurities. Sounds very very unlikely to me. Impurities usually got a random effect. And how likely is an impurity solved in alcohol to make girls crazy over you and yourself crazy over girls? Like 1:1000000 maybe? So why do they tell you that? They could just say that the lab closed, or they lost the magic formula?
There is a chemical formula behind every putative and every idiot knows that you can just let it synthesize by another lab.
And why do they not make it again with the impurities? Of course! The Lab that made it is now defunct! And this very very unlikely thing happens just for the molecule that got most praise over the forums? Unbelievable bad luck? Big ass bullshit, IMO! P83 is the same story with a bit less bullshit.

My opinion
It's perfectly reasonable, that they want to get the most money out of their company. Just how deceptive they are in the process pisses me off. They are wasting people's time on testing molecules just to pull them out when those are too good. Like give a child a lolly, just to steal it away a little later.

They most likely would want to sell you the good stuff at astronomical prices. Like maybe 200$/togo. They can't, though, as it would kill their "we are all friends and just make enough money to survive" image. That's why they can't sell the really good stuff. So we'll have to have to wait for the other companies to catch up.

Post: #34

They don't sell the P75 at $9999, if I'm not wrong, when a customer actually places such an order they give them a ring and tell them not to buy it. I think if the customer still wants to buy it at $9999, what the heck, they've done a darn good job at convincing someone to part with their money, and I'd be "whoa shit, thumbs up, someone actually bought $9999 worth of product, he must really want it that bad". I'd like to get to know the guy too, he'd probably be really badass or at least having dollar bills fly out at every turn of the hand, maybe he'll be willing to throw some in my direction

Fair is a relative concept. For the reporting users, P75 might seem to be fair, for those who've "earned" their "right" to purchase P75, that might be fair. In blue eyed terms view it as a company rewarding its loyal customers with access to a rare an expensive high quality hard to produce results, in marketing perpective - In simple terms, look at it as if its a carrot. In complex terms its a form of psychological gratification, being able to access and tap on an "exclusive" product, aka the limited editions etc

Point blank, I'd be a dumbo to buy it at $9999, and believe me before I do blow that kind of money on a putative, my good buds will brave high hell and water to stop me from going madcap, just like how they prevented me from going on a crazy ass bank busting spree after arriving here (heheh thanks guys)

As for the P86 alternative, I'm on the look out. Lol. I believe several members here have received pm's from me asking about it

For AD I don't foresee them getting bankrupt in the long term (I might be wrong, but at least logically, logically to me). Reading post after post on how they had issues with their supply chain as well as lack of control,have more of what was necessary. Well that left me a little worried and felt a sincere need to stockpile on any putatives or MXs I loved. Instead of thinking that they were unreliable, I felt the urgency. I paniced for a while when Instant Gentleman went out of stock (I do stockpile and that's money spent on my side, I'm a consumer and I do get affected by the noise and whispers, sometimes only realising too late... Oh shit, I didn't need this actually but I think I'm satisfied that I got a little extra of that other) And to be honest I did lose a certain amount of trust in them after coming here and reading about copulin gate. I then saw Jasmine's approach as a possible spin to come across as sincere and earnest, story or not there was an image and position the company was taking. The direction of their company now seems to be changing, into what? I don't know. I've discussed this with some company neutral friends both online and offline and we've agreed that as long as change is good and we see good things happening (price, effective product offerings and possible policies we might like), we won't complain, or at least not much, we'll wait and see and concerning repute they've got to continue proving themselves that we can buy and trust their products.

To quote someone I look up to and respect alot, he told me this "All I can tell you is that what this company puts out is good, and while I don't agree with some of their policies and past dealings, it doesn't make them bad at all. No one is perfect, they try and that's good enough for me." You might disagree with this statement, I don't entirely agree but I agree with the spirit of "they try" or at least in my eyes. It is both a blessing and a bane to be able to make multiple angled observations at the same time because interpreting true intention sometimes becomes hard and blurred, and I'll admit I'm prone to that.

There isn't a foolproof strategy. Apple also faces tough competition. There are similar competing devices, clones even, people choosing to boycott because of their severe prices, their lack of transparency or their cavelier attitude (remember the iphone grip of death?)

There is alot of effort made to stay at the top. Like I said, imperfect information doesn't last forever, I arrived here finally and made the leap to try other products, and I believe many others will too. I personally feel that their current strat of promoting new mx's and pushing might lead to consumer burn out, overselling and overtilling current markets without allowing rest, however then again, "the research angle" is something they're selling. Companies need to understand the life cycle of a consumer. I personally have reached burn out phase and am going into subsistence mode, identifying my necessary products and shying away from the adventurous. mx297, true love, a314, glace have now reached my staple buy list. Ammo, WM9+O, mx412/413, mx405, 406 etc. have fallen by the way side. I'm currently deliberating whether or not to drop Androstadienone since my discovery of TL, but since I find that some products don't go with TL, Androstadienone might blend in better.

Its all a matter of game theory and economics, maximising their benefit and gauging how their customers react. Will the increase in price bring about greater profits even though demand falls? Will most customers choose to lose faith when we release a certain piece of information or will they choose to trust us and feel that we're transparent and have accountability? There're opportunity costs involved when a strategic move is made

Look at the principle and spirit of my post, do not view it as a defense or flawed examples, I'm merely trying to offer the view that if they stick to their guns of $9999 and it remains out of reach, walk away and buy something else. I just feel that its a waste to miss the forest for a couple of trees (ok good trees in my opinion, my life's been changed ever since I discovered a314 and mx297). I decided to look beyond the trees and found a forest.

But like I've said in the lounge, this is a free world, the internet is free ground, anyone can vent, comment or rant. Debate, accept, prove or disprove.

Humans tend to show favorable bias towards those who treat them nice, and show discontent when left out of a "party". I'm no exception. There will always be discontent, and trust me I do my fair share of moaning and complaining too. But yeah.

(09-16-2011 12:15 PM)dexter Wrote:  Nobody hate me for doing this, but after reading this response to why $1-10k for a bottle of P75 might be justified, i wanted to comment. I may have typed too much in response to a somewhat meandering post.

I do not beleive that they are mutually exclusive, hair club for men president claimed he was also a member, could the OWNER of a company that is listed as having 4 employees also be the operations manager? Did the BBB just get it wrong, or did Jasmine go to the BBB and change the name of the owner to JSL for strategy? see link above.
There could be more than 4 [John Sebastion Lavalle Jr., Jasmine, Steve, Michael Harris, Mickaela, peon1, peon2, peon3, peon4]

I must point out how these 2 statements quoted below don't work together with statements like:
1- AD's business model is top notch, keeping consumers in, retaining loyalty.
2- I was forced to look for alternatives,(a case like atrione or etrione for P86?)
These statements kind of say to me that if AD had their financial house in order they would provide their products so they wouldn't lose customers, or have customers trying to figure out their formulas for fear that AD is going bankrupt and the secrets will go to the grave with them, but since they don't got the finances in order, Gslinger goes to other suppliers for the mones.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  AD has an incredible business model in my opinion, NLP or not they know their stuff. Shortages, limited releases and exclusive products are all techniques used by companies to stay ahead of the game and maximise demand. I don't know if shortages are used by AD but their system of keeping consumers in as well as retaining customer loyalty is top notch. A degree of social engineering and programming by companies, manipulating perception, positioning, everything is business.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  ...because I"m limited by capital I was forced to look for alternatives and I actually found some that actually worked. I was initially skeptical and fearful at first but... I found that there are also other good products out there.

How does P75 work? Is it the Ferrari of pheromones? This thread is about paying $9,999.99 for P75. Ferrari has a waiting list to sell their top models at their price. How many people are in line to pay $9,999.99 from AD, right now, this second, compared to Ferrari's waiting list? I don't think there would be a waiting list, they would sell it as fast as they could, shown by jasmine's post who said the shortage was just $$$ flow problems. FOLLOW THE LINK READ THE POST.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  Transparency in itself is a marketing tool,... "Do we want to trust whatever they tell us this product does and not know if there's the real deal in it or do we want to find a product that we know what goes inside of it"

Good question. "DO WE WANT TO FIND A PRODUCT THAT WE KNOW WHAT GOES INSIDE OF IT?"
After copulingate wasn't settled, I guess we CAN NOT trust that these Commercial Line mixes don't change from batch to batch. I'm pretty sure they have tweaked most all of them as shown by the version numbers, and changed the formulas of all the commercial line over time.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  ...it is the companies' responsibility to keep us happy so they can get our dollars.

Is Gslinger happy enough with P75 to give them the $$$'s ($9,999.99)? I don't think I am that happy.



I thought this post WAS about the sudden changes in pricing policy. You are saying that they have not made the changes, but the $9,999.99 change seemed sudden.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  I'm happy to say that I'm happy spending my money with AD

But did you spend the money for P75? I will guess you did not order it after the sudden price change.

(09-16-2011 3:37 AM)Gslinger Wrote:  As far as I know myself I'm a bargain hunter, but I believe in fair trades and fair deals.

I am guessing that AD's "incredible business model" and "intelligent strategy and manuevring" have kept you satisfied in the price for P75 being "FAIR". It seems that this doesn't synch up with your claim of bargain hunting vs. praise for AD's incredible/intelligent operations. Or maybe you got so caught up in thinking about shopping for computers online in the post above that you forgot the thread was about P75's price.

Really? Are you satisfied by the Price of P75?
We are all freaking fans of AD here dude. I don't know of anyone who isn't a fan of AD products. But about the P75 price, that is what this post is about. Seems I snagged you by posting the link that shows that John Sebastian Lavalle Jr was the president. As listed by the BBB. And that Jasmine reports to him, as posted by Jasmine.

I see this as a statement, just showing the links to the facts I found. Why is it hard to beleive that a rich kid came in with his dad's money and became an investor/owner into a company that needed money bad, and still does. So much that P75 is $9,999.99.

WAR OUT-

Post: #35

(09-16-2011 12:32 PM)mengster Wrote:  i share your frustrations dexter but the truth of the matter is that we don't exactly have a choice.

i am expressing it by not buying anymore of their products.

I didn't say boycott. I buy their stuff. I buy stuff from everyone, almost, well you know everything that looks new, I don't go after the mixes that look like NONE, NOL mixes that are in my opinion too much of the same old thing to try again. I am always looking for that new molecule that my wife will love.

I got thousands of dollars of AD stuff. Just wish I could get the ones I want without the blackouts, and if AD is listening,
Sell the unscented for the same price as scented.

I wonder which users on this forum are AD the employees. I don't want to make them mad, just sell ME the good stuff. I really want to try the P86, P87, P88, P126, P107 and tons of others that aren't in stock.

Post: #36

Like I said, I express my unhappiness with the situation by not purchasing their products. A fair amount of people have tried protesting at their forum to no avail, what more here?

Good luck with your peaceful protest. I sincerely hope u succeed.

Post: #37

They're not selling it for $9999, they won't even let it go through. Although I'd like to see someone try to buy it for that price and see if it actually goes through.

AD has the RU privileges for people who actually report, call it whatever you want but personally, it's a pain when you got a buncha new guys buying it up and wondering why it doesn't work. Better off you put your time in than waste it for everyone else. As for the BBB Post it says Operations manager on the page.

Long story short. Like em or not, no point wasting your time wondering. Go out there and have fun, that's the entire point of pheromones.

Post: #38

P75 back in stock for us. But only up to 15mcg / 30mL or 25mcg /5mL.
Putative P75
Code: P75 -----------------------
Retail: $49.97
Our price: $28.95 (€ 20.26), save 42%