Quote:No this was not what I was saying but its great info I can use. Perhaps this is what is happening. Its diffusing so fast its gone by the time I get to my targets and I end up not seeing results. See our debate is actually yielding some important useful info. LOL Maybe this is why Stone ads the indole or whatever the others were that makes it smell shitty. Maybe it is slowing or binding with the copulins effecting the diffusion for some reason. I know people always wondered why he used it since its not really needed and is so stinky. I notice the industrial copulins which another lab made also had indole in them. I am not sure what indole does chemically but its something to consider as well. In the past we always talked about them not diffusing, not diffusing to rapidly. Its starting to make sense to me now.
I love discussing this with you, Tisha. It is very helpful in thinking about things, and gives me places to go back and test.
I had a recent discussion with a researcher who was fortunate enough to be able to get a sample of the original Astrid Jutte copulins. According to this researcher the indole in her formulation was an unfortunate contaminant, which has always been my contention... that this is never seen in a healthy vagina. Indole is produced by intestinal bacteria like e.coli. The only time you would see this in vaginal fluid is with a concomitant bacterial vaginosis, and at the same time you would see a lack of copulins because under those conditions of bacterial infection, the environment is more basic in pH than acidic. So, in a vagina indole=intestinal pathogens and an unhealthy vaginal environment.
In some flowers there is a small amount of indole which contributes to its scent. At a very low concentration it smells sweet but dirty, like you would find in Jasmine. At high concentrations it smells very intensely fecal... just like poop. Jonquil (Narcissus) is a floral that is very high in the low end of indole. It has a very intense dirty smell.
Structurally, indole is a benzene ring fused with a pyrrole (nitrogen-containing, 4 carbon) ring. It is identified as a marker for intestinal contaminants in the lab. It is used to make certain dye stuffs and coal tar. It is used in pharmacology to synthesize certain medications, like beta blockers. But mostly it is used in very small amounts in the perfume industry. (For more information:
It is not a diffusion inhibiting molecule.
Benezenethiol is a benezene ring with a sulphur molecule attached. It is also known as thiophenol. It is a foul smelling compound that smells like sewer gas. It is the most structurally simple aromatic thiol. In its pure form it is highly toxic. It is used in manufacture of carbophenothion insecticide and acaracide, fungicide (fonofos), and mosquito larvicide. It is also used as a pharmaceutical intermediate. And it has other industrial uses, such as in polymer reactions. It is also used in Surface-Enhanced Infrared Absorption spectrum analysis. It diffuses rapidly from dry surfaces, so would not function to inhibit diffusion. It is most likely added just for its smell. (For more information:
Hexanoic acid is a 6 carbon saturated fatty acid. To distinguish it from copulin fatty acids, copulins contain 3 to 5 carbon chains. Hexanoic acid has a goaty or cheesy smell depending on the concentration. It is abundantly produced by intestinal bacteria. It is used in food flavoring and scenting and used in the production of cosmetics. I'm not sure of most of the chemical properties of this molecule, but it is diffusive and would not inhibit diffusion of the copulins.
What you state above about rapid diffusion being the problem may be the case but we don't know. But based on looking just at the diffusion characteristics of Essence of Woman , these are not different. In earlier testing with a similar version in alcohol last summer you did see effects in your husband and you reported on them at AD. I think I can dig up a copy of that report. I think I grabbed it before I deleted the tester's thread. I'll have to go look through my files. But one difference was those last summer were much more concentrated that what I would use now because of the potential for bad side effects with these in alcohol. However, at some point in testing what I have sent to you, you will be using the same amount that you had last summer. So it will be interesting to see where that point is for you.
As you work your way up in concentration you may begin to see effects again.
But also, I think you are used to using copulins in a form that is much different and that can have an effect on your expectations around my copulins.
Essence of Woman 's ratios of fatty acids don't fall in line with the data collected in studies of women who produce them. This is an assumption on my part based on the listing of ingredients on their package, assuming they are listed in descending order of concentration in the product. That being the case, you won't find the physiologic effects with these that you would see if I were to send you a highly concentrated version of copulins with the ratios that are the same as produced in women.
So, even though theirs is so concentrated that it melts the dropper, you don't see the same physiologic effects you would see in mine if I were to send you a sample at the same concentration levels. But you do see effects where the guys like and are attracted to the "dirty" smells.
I don't want to get into too much detail about this or try to compare my copulin products too much one on one with Essence of Woman . Essence of Woman is a fine product that works very well in those cases where the guys actually like the dirty smells and are attracted to them. But it is very different from mine, and pretty useless in those cases where the dirty smells are perceived as offensive and repulsive.
Working with copulins last summer and researching why the effects were as they were in the literature I had to make a decision about these because the effects were too strong. I spent a lot of time trying to come to a concentration level that gave the desired effects and minimized the unwanted effects. My copulins are in the same range of ratios that are produced naturally, so, I don't have the option to play around with the ratios and lessen those elements that are responsible for the effects while upping the others that are more responsible for smell. And because I want to keep these as natural and as close to that produced in the vaginas of young, nubile, ovulating women, I don't have the option to add in funkifying elements either. That was just the rules I laid out of what I wanted to accomplish.
At high concentration, the copulins caused erectile engorgement, and excitement, but also interfered with concentration, interfered with hand-eye coordination, caused headaches, caused short term memory difficulty, caused "drunkeness", etc., and effects were seen in both the user and in targets. Of course, I was very excited because none of these effects were reported in users of any of the copulin formulation that were on the market at the time, and they pointed to a physiologic possibility for the effects that were seen in the research.
I brought the concentration level down to where I thought it should be in alcohol, but after sending Mara samples and having her report 100% headache in herself and two or three others who tried the same, I lowered it further. But in alcohol, I don't see the desired target effects until after reaching headache threshold, which kind of defeats the purpose.
That is when I turned to the oil bases and found that I could elicit wanted effects with much higher concentration of copulins, without inducing headaches. Even in oil I can easily reach the level where the other unwanted effects occur, the drunkeness, hand/eye coordination problems, short term memory difficulty, etc., without inducing headaches. And the oil seems to enhance the excitement side of the equation.
About why Stone uses these elements, it is pretty clear that they are added for smell alone. Natural copulins in their purely acidic state are pretty pungent. From the bottle they smell very acid, very pungent, almost vinegary. It isn't until they have had a chance to adhere to the skin that they begin to smell anything like a real vagina's musk.
Some men are very attracted to an unwashed dirty genital smell and some men think this is how a vagina should smell. Essence of Woman mimics that to a pretty good effect with these fecal molecules added to copulins. Unfortunately, you can't wash the smell of those added chemicals off very easily.
In perfumery, the urine and fecal smells have been used for centuries, and have always added an attractive element. Deer and beaver musk are attractive to men. Civit is attractive to women. These are foul in their pure forms, but in a very low amount they add something alluring you can't get from anything else.
But personally, Essence of Woman is way over the top and not alluring at all. They have a product that is very attractive to a certain segment of the population. Others have the opposite reaction. Personally, I like the smell of a fresh sweaty vagina, minus the poop... heh.
I don't know if this made anything clearer or more confusing. I hope it is the former.
Diane
Copulin product review.
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