Post: #11

OK Well Diane was kind enough to send me some spray copulins at different strengths. 

So far I have tested 1X and 2X strength for a few days each all the way up to using 5 sprays and all I can report is a mild increase in friendliness and interaction from others sort of similar to wearing a low dose of Alpha Androstenol.  No emotion driven self effects but I do feel slightly more peppy.

Interestingly I noticed Di had mentioned blood pressure could go down with this and I happen to have a good blood pressure machine I keep here for me and husband.  High blood pressure runs in my family and mine was up higher then the doctor liked a year back.  He wanted me to go on meds but I took a holistic approach and upped my cardio and got it down to a satisfactory level for my doctor.  

I checked mine which was 130/77 and used her spray and checked again a 1/2 hour later.  Its was 126/78  Not a big drop but it was different.  I did this again on different days and also had my hubby do it. He put a little on and sniffed it. His was 141/81 and dropped to 135/79.   He didnt see this effect when I wore it only when he did which made me happy in a way because I try not to tell him what things are supposed to do so I get a true reaction from him.  By the way he says they smell gross oddly though he doesn't perceive that smell on me when I wear them or at least he hasn't told me I smell gross LOL.  Anywhoo I asked my sister who is a RN and she said its probably natural fluctuations.  I dont know, but I thought it was worth a mention.

Diane you may have found a spray on alternative to high blood pressure meds LOL

But as a pheromone I cant say I am getting anything.  Pheromones main purpose is to signal others. I dont know what you would call them when they effect only the self but I would not call them pheromones.   I am moving on to 3X and 4X next.

Again I doubted myself which sort of pisses me off.  I tried some other cops,  One day with 5 drops of Essence of Woman and 1 day with blatant invitation.  Both got the normal sexual response  I expected from others.  In fact BI produced some very surprising hard hitting results.  I was shopping with my sister and we stopped for lunch and the guy at the table behind us stopped to talk to me.  He totally ignored my sister and when he left he gave me his card with his personal number on the back.  LOL  These are not occurrences that happen to me normally.  My sister kept saying "he has some nerve, your wedding ring is right there for all to see" LOL.


I will continue trying. 

Tisha

Post: #12

So, you are saying in your view, copulins are not effective for sexual attraction, but fecal stench is? The reason I ask is because other than the artificially added fecal elements Essence of Woman has the same fatty acids as I produce in my product. And it has already been shown that it is copulins that cause a rise in testosterone, not indole, not benezene thiol, and not hexanoic acid.

Also, I'm curious what causes your and your husband's high blood pressure, because some causes of high blood pressure block copulin effect. I've already talked about that a little bit elsewhere. For myself, copulins have dropped my blood pressure down from 180/100 to 150/80 within one minute of use. My doctor confirmed it. I am not on b.p meds, btw.

Also, high blood pressure medications alter the effects of copulins. Since these medications already relax the blood vessels, increasing blood flow, some by direct effect on the NO systems, and some by indirect effects on these same systems, you won't see much change in response to copulin use.

In people with normally taut vessels, the NO which is produced under the action of copulins, acts to relax the smooth muscles, and this relaxes the vessels, increasing blood flow. In these people, the difference can be felt as engorgment of erectile tissue, mood elevation from increased cerebral flow, etc. But if you already have relaxed vessels, of course there is no change.

I don't recommend trying to replace medication with copulins! This is just a curious side effect of the mechanism of copulin action. I do believe that as smart consumers we each should choose what works best to keep ourselves healthy. But I am not a health care practitioner and I am not advocating taking serious medical conditions like chronic high blood pressure lightly, nor advocating that anyone should ever stop taking their medications without a thorough review of their options with their regular care provider.

Diane

Post: #13

Quote:So, you are saying in your view, copulins are not effective for sexual attraction, but fecal stench is? The reason I ask is because other than the artificially added fecal elements Essence of Woman (Essence of Woman ) has the same fatty acids as I produce in my product. And it has already been shown that it is copulins that cause a rise in testosterone, not indole, not benezene thiol, and not hexanoic acid.

Diane I dont make copulins other then in the natural way women make them so I really cant tell you if its fecal stench indole benezene or what. I dont even know what those are without looking them up. I am not a scientist or a lab tech. However I am a very experienced pheromone user and yes, I consider myself a expert in the testing and wearing of pheromones. What I am saying is I am not seeing the same results that I see when I use other copulin formulas. I can not tell you why this is. I dont mean this as a insult or anything, I am reporting my experience with it. If I just say sure they work when they dont its not going to help you or your store any or my reputation as a pheromone coach.

Quote:Also, I'm curious what causes your and your husband's high blood pressure, because some causes of high blood pressure block copulin effect. I've already talked about that a little bit elsewhere. For myself, copulins have dropped my blood pressure down from 180/100 to 150/80 within one minute of use. My doctor confirmed it. I am not on b.p meds, btw.

I am not on meds either, I assume mine is hereditary because its not my diet or lifestyle. I didnt think it was high to begin with but my doctor says they like it lower then 140/80 now. I upped my cardio, watched my salt intake and it went down to a level he was happy with without meds. My husband smokes and dosent always eat right. He is not overweight, He is fairly muscular for his age and active but I think the smoking contributes to his BP more. I tend to wear higher then normal doses of pheromones around him as well. He takes a low dose of norvasc. He responds fine to copulins normally though, sometimes quite aggressively and all his personal equipment works fine still so he needs no help there as of yet. I also wear copulins when I go out and I know hits when I see them. So my husband is not my only gage here for if they are working or not.

Quote: don't recommend trying to replace medication with copulins! This is just a curious side effect of the mechanism of copulin action. I do believe that as smart consumers we each should choose what works best to keep ourselves healthy. But I am not a health care practitioner and I am not advocating taking serious medical conditions like chronic high blood pressure lightly, nor advocating that anyone should ever stop taking their medications without a thorough review of their options with their regular care provider.

No no of course not, I just thought it was worth mentioning because its something you said could happen and it did although not severely. So something occured just not what I expected.


Look I really am not trying to be mean or say your product is bad. I am just reporting what I see and feel. I am not a newbie at this. I love copulins and no one more then I wants this to work.

As I said I am moving on to the 3X and the 4X. Maybe I will have more luck with those. I also have quite a bit of the 1X and the 2X left so I can continue testing those, I thought I would wait for a climate change here.

Tisha

Post: #14

(12-27-2009 1:58 PM)Tisha Wrote:  Maybe I lost my touch. I am gonna balance my chakras and do a cleansing bath before I test this next batch. I feel bad because you have been so generous and I so want them to work out. Do you think because my dad died and I am still a bit in mourning that I could be giving off a natural pheromone that may over power the feelings the copulins give. I seem to being doing ok with softer bonding mones like P74 or Beta Androstenol as of late...

The possibility that there may be changes in you over time crossed my mind also.

You may want to try a product that you experienced results with previously, like Essence of Woman of a batch you have experience with.  If you do get results with that, then the next day don't get results with the other products you're testing, that gives us additional information.  It would tend to disprove the hypothesis that lack of results is due to changes in you.

Post: #15

I do not think you are being mean, Tisha! LOL. I just think this is a very interesting experiment with lots of potential implications, including what exactly is attractive from a distance and what is not.

I am not used to using products for attraction purposes, so I have little experience in testing products the way that you do. That is fine. We are all different and we all use products to tailor our lives in the ways in which we want to make them more fun, interesting, or better.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the way you test, or how you respond to pheromones. We are all different. Life would be pretty boring if it were totally predictable.

But this is my experience with copulins... it is different from yours, not better, not worse, just different.

I use copulins the way that I think they make my life better... and that is in the bedroom, in close personal and intimate space... in the clutches. I apply these just before hubby and I DTD. For me, and for him the copulins make our pleasure more intense. That is how we respond to them. I don't try to put them on and influence him from across the room or across a crowded room. I don't think copulins work that way. In the natural state they are intimate. That is not to say that someone might not feel effects from them at a distance with diffusion... I just don't have any way to predict that.

I also use these to control my blood vessel spasms that are debilitating. This was one of the clues that lead me on the hunt for the copulin receptor and receptor effects in the literature... because I noticed with my first batch that I wasn't having these when I worked with the copulins and when I wore them.

Anyone who's had an angina attack knows how painfully debilitating they are. I had already gone through a complete cardiac workup with angio and echo and radiation metabolic studies and stress tests... they couldn't find a cause... just confirm that I was having cardio spasm in response to any kind of exercise, even mild exercise like walking up a half flight of stairs. My doctor has debated putting me on Ca2+ channel blockers... I don't want to do that if I don't have to because of the side effects. But the alternatives didn't look good.

Copulins work for me. I have to apply a bit under my nose before I do anything, but they keep me from going into vascular spasm. They keep me from experiencing angina attacks, and they have given me my life back. So, I know they work to relax vascular muscle tissue. I know how they work. And I'm satisfied with that.

In close proximity, they do the same for my husband. This is evident to both of us by our sexual responses. You may be too young to notice this effect, but as we age sexual pleasure can decrease because of a lessening of blood flow to those sensitive areas because of the natural aging process. We are both turning 50 this year and for us the change is dramatic. It may be that you and your husband will not see such dramatic effects from copulins until you are older.

As for the testosterone effect, I'll have to wait to hear from the guys to see if there may be an age difference in noticing the effects of that as well.

Esmeralda emailed me soon after she got my first samples of copulin oils and told me the story of an older male friend of her father's who became enthralled with her when she wore them. This was a big change in him from the way he had responded to her in the past. She doesn't seem to be seeing this in her younger male targets. So, here again, it looks like these may be more effective in affecting men passed a certain age.

But all of this is conjecture at this point, and we'll have to wait and see.

Your contribution to this is no less valuable because you aren't seeing what you expect to see. I didn't mean to imply that it was. It is as equally valuable as from those who do see effects. It is all part of the data pool.

Diane

Post: #16

GW Wrote:You may want to try a product that you experienced results with previously, like Essence of Woman (Essence of Woman ) of a batch you have experience with. If you do get results with that, then the next day don't get results with the other products you're testing, that gives us additional information. It would tend to disprove the hypothesis that lack of results is due to changes in you.

I did, I posted about that in my post above.

Quote:I do not think you are being mean, Tisha! LOL. I just think this is a very interesting experiment with lots of potential implications, including what exactly is attractive from a distance and what is not.

Good because I dont want you to feel that way. My focus has always been on giving the newbies accurate usable information so they can purchase what is likely to work best for them and thats why I report. It dosent always make a person feel good when they have to report its not working though. Its hard to do especially since your closer to our hearts then the other vendors.

Well if your referring to attractive as in the way I look thats never been a problem but I am getting older. LOL If your referring to distance of diffusion, I work will a 90% male crew. The first 4 hours of the day I am with in 2 to 5 feet of them. We are moving about. Now I know most work environments are not condusive to testing copulins but as I have reported over the years my work is different and its always been the perfect testing grounds.

Quote:In close proximity, they do the same for my husband. This is evident to both of us by our sexual responses. You may be too young to notice this effect, but as we age sexual pleasure can decrease because of a lessening of blood flow to those sensitive areas because of the natural aging process. We are both turning 50 this year and for us the change is dramatic. It may be that you and your husband will not see such dramatic effects from copulins until you are older.

This could be true and I would agree if no copulin product worked on him but the thing is I have seen dramatic effects in his behavoir using copulins.

Quote:I am not used to using products for attraction purposes, so I have little experience in testing products the way that you do. That is fine. We are all different and we all use products to tailor our lives in the ways in which we want to make them more fun, interesting, or better.

In my day to day life when I am not testing I dont wear them for attraction purposes either. I tend to like a mix of Beta Androstenol, Alpha Androstenol and TAA. When testing thats a different story. You test for everything not just for what you plan to use it for. I know from working with hundreds of newbies over the years, one on one that only 2 or 3 % are coming in for self effects. The rest want the pheromone effect which is attraction whether it be more socially or sexually.

Quote:I use copulins the way that I think they make my life better... and that is in the bedroom, in close personal and intimate space... in the clutches. I apply these just before hubby and I DTD. For me, and for him the copulins make our pleasure more intense. That is how we respond to them. I don't try to put them on and influence him from across the room or across a crowded room. I don't think copulins work that way. In the natural state they are intimate. That is not to say that someone might not feel effects from them at a distance with diffusion... I just don't have any way to predict that.

I dont expect any pheromone to work across a crowded room. No pheromone works that way. I know you have to be within 3 to 5 feet, I The point is when I test I am with in 3 to 5 feet. If I am in a situation where I can not be with in that distance even for a short period of time I dont count it. Take the resterant with my sister for instance. That guy was in the booth right behind me. Our seats where back to back so he was within 3 feet. It didnt effect anyone 2 or 3 booths over and I didnt expect it would. I didnt have a interest in the guy behind me in fact I didnt even notice him much until he came to my table.

Now if your saying your product it just for use for when your already in a sexual situation that is fine. I have had sex with your copulins on (snort, that sounds funny LOL) Sex is pretty much always good between my husband and I so I cant say if it was different in any way. I find if I want to intensify sex I need a mix of Androstanone and cops to get that. Essence of Woman or any other one wont do it on its own. I have not used yours with Androstanone yet. This is not to say that copulins alone wont intensifiy sexual experienced for others though. Thats just my situation.

Quote:Copulins work for me. I have to apply a bit under my nose before I do anything, but they keep me from going into vascular spasm. They keep me from experiencing angina attacks, and they have given me my life back. So, I know they work to relax vascular muscle tissue. I know how they work. And I'm satisfied with that.

I think its wonderful that these do all that for you but again when ladies come in to the pheromone world its not because they are looking for something for angina.

Quote:Esmeralda emailed me soon after she got my first samples of copulin oils and told me the story of an older male friend of her father's who became enthralled with her when she wore them. This was a big change in him from the way he had responded to her in the past. She doesn't seem to be seeing this in her younger male targets. So, here again, it looks like these may be more effective in affecting men passed a certain age.

Thats great, she should report on it then, Maybe if more people reported we could all see the pattern. However those who have reported are far younger then I, granted I do notice that they report exactly the same information that you have posted your copulins will do. Prehaps its placebo and it is something that has to be considered in all pheromone testing, or maybe its the way the copulins makes them feel that changes their behavoir and their partners are responding to the behavoir not the copulins. Actually this is more likely.

Thats something I am careful of in testing and something I was taught over at AD. We look for the effect of the pheromone thats why we would down play self effects. A person behavoir can change the normal outcome of a situation but what I am looking for is the effect that has nothing to do with the self effect and the behavoir modification it causes. That is what determines if its working pheromonally. If its only effecting the person wearing it then its acting hormonally. A pheromone in the all sense of the word is a chemical that triggers a natural response in another member of the same species.

This is not to say that the self effects and the behavoir changes they cause are not useful. They are and if pheromones only effected me in this way I would still use them. I just wouldnt call them pheromones. However old habits die hard and I have been trained to look for pheromone effects when I test.


I do want to point out for everyone espeically newbies that there are many factors that come into play. Environment, climate, a persons own natural state while testing, congruancy. I am not done testing these. I have a lot more left and I will give it a break for a week or two then resume testing when some conditions change. I always do this when testing and its what I tell other who come to me when testing a putative or something with no luck. I tell them to put it away for a few weeks and revisit it. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it dosent.

Tisha

Post: #17

Hang on, it's taking some time but there's another "old girl" around here who's been testing copulins and is working on a report.  


Bella

Post: #18

(01-12-2010 5:30 AM)Tisha Wrote:  Now if your saying your product it just for use for when your already in a sexual situation that is fine.

I am not saying that my product is only for having sex.  I never said that.  I said this is how they work for me.

(01-12-2010 5:30 AM)Tisha Wrote:  However those who have reported are far younger then I, granted I do notice that they report exactly the same information that you have posted your copulins will do.

I have not seen the same reports you have reported on here.  The reports that I have read, both here and in my inbox, are varied as to response.  Most report dramatic increase in sexual seeking behavior in their partners with wear.  I don't don't wear them that way and so, I don't see that with my husband.  Most people who have a positive response don't put them on just before sex, like I do.  And I've never seen a single report that was "exactly the same information" that I've posted my copulins will do.  So, I'm not sure where this is coming from.  However, most reports that I have seen have reported the same effect, that of increased sexual seeking behavior in their partners with wear.  So they are similar to each other.

(01-12-2010 5:30 AM)Tisha Wrote:  Prehaps its placebo and it is something that has to be considered in all pheromone testing, or maybe its the way the copulins makes them feel that changes their behavoir and their partners are responding to the behavoir not the copulins. Actually this is more likely.

This same argument can be said for any pheromone.... does it effect your behavior or does it effect the target.  It is the same argument that you used with me because I always got self effects and you don't usually.  But I would remind you that most people are effected by pheromones in a tangible way that is not accounted for by the wearers posturing, copulins included.

However, the bolded part of the statement above is what I have a problem with.  There is no way for you to determine whether someone is responding because they have an actual physiologic response to the substance, or because they believe they should.  To throw weight behind your belief it is placebo is not balanced or unbiased.

I'm not trying to challenge your history of pheromone use, or your experience in testing.  We all know it is extensive.  What I want to challenge here is your belief that your response carries the weight of truth, and that others' responses, when different from yours, do not.  I would argue that your responses in this matter are just different.

(01-12-2010 5:30 AM)Tisha Wrote:  Thats something I am careful of in testing and something I was taught over at AD. We look for the effect of the pheromone thats why we would down play self effects. A person behavoir can change the normal outcome of a situation but what I am looking for is the effect that has nothing to do with the self effect and the behavoir modification it causes. That is what determines if its working pheromonally. If its only effecting the person wearing it then its acting hormonally. A pheromone in the all sense of the word is a chemical that triggers a natural response in another member of the same species.

 

LOL... is that what they taught you over at AD?  Let me clear this up, then and inject a little reality into it.

Many people get self effects from the male pheromones.  However, none of these steroids ever have hormonal effects, even if you inject them directly into your bloodstream.

A hormonal effect in these substances would be anabolic and would ensure that those "pheromones" were immediately banned by the DEA.

Hormones are blood-borne substances that have metabolic tissue effects.  Some hormones are proteins, some are steroids.  The hormone receptors are  specific to the hormones.  They don't have the same shape, composition, or function as the receptors which bind pheromones.  Hormones influence protein synthesis within the cell.  Pheromones do not.

Pheromones are neurotransmitter influencing substances which either inhibit or enhance neurotransmitter binding or release, or affect the firing rate of nerves.

The two are not alike in any fashion, nor do they interact with one another in the others functional domain.

Copulins are neither steroids, proteins, nor hormones.  They do not ever influence metabolic functioning.  However, they do influence neurotransmitter release, and firing rate of nerve impulses.  This is what makes them pheromonal.

Where things get tricky is with substances like DHEA, which is not a hormone, but which can be converted into a hormone within the body... if it is taken in enough quantity or if it were to be injected.  But in itself, used as a pheromone, it is not a hormone and has no hormonal effects.  And even injected, not enough is converted to testosterone (which is a hormone) to cause it to be added to the list of controlled and banned substances.

I think what you are actually arguing is that if a substance diffuses and affects a target it is pheromonal and if it doesn't diffuse, but affects the wearer it isn't.  I agree.  But copulins are so volatile that if you leave a 100% solution on a lab bench it will completely diffuse within a short period of time.

The problem that I face is not do they diffuse or not.  Copulins diffuse too rapidly.  This is why I like the higher concentration in oil much better.  It slows down the diffusion rate and makes them more effective.

 

Diane

 

 

 

 

 

Post: #19

Because this form of copulins is not one that I recommend or actually sell, I also sent the same concentration sprays to Diamond and Niatalya as I sent to Tisha. I haven't heard whether either of them have received their packages yet or not. For some reason the US Mail service to England is very slow so it may be a while before we hear from him.

I chose to ask these two to participate so that we could get a viariety in reports... Nia because she does get self effects, as well as sees effects of pheromone use in others; and is a pretty savvy pheromone user in her own right; and Diamond because he is male; he's never used any of my products, so is a total blank slate; he gets self effects as well as seeing effects in others with pheromone use; and he is a pretty experienced pheromone user.

Diane

Post: #20

Sorry it's taking me so long Diane, but I haven't had much of a chance to test the cops outside of with Keith. So far I have not not any changes in sexual behavior with him or an increase in sexual desire. I wanted to do more tests out in town to see if other men react to them or not before I reported. So far I have only used the lower dose concentrations in town and there may have been a slight increase in friendliness but so far very subtle.