Post: #21

(09-23-2012 7:53 AM)20 Franc Wrote:  How much Civetone did you apply ?
What other things did you have in the mix ?

It's hard to tell exactly how much civetone I applied because the stuff is viscous like maple syrup and a 'drop' is going to be more than a drop of water (more than 1/20th of a ml) So my dosage could be off by a factor of two or three. My mix was;

2 drops juniper 1 drop civetone (50% synthetic civetone from perfumer's apprentice) ~3 drops "20 glucam" 1 drop gardenia diluted in 10 ml EtOH then 1/4th ml of that was diluted in 10 ml EtOH then finally x drops in a full 8 ml sprayer. Eventually I started adding other stuff, but I started out with just this mix and the results are below.

So we'd have target dosage of roughly around 180mcg to ~540 mcg depending on whether that first drop was the size of a drop of water, or had, say, three times the volume. This matches up roughly with the ~330 mcg/ml dosage of Calvin Klein's "obsession." More than the values mentioned caused negative effects, though, and I can't say if it was due to scent or pheromonal OD or both.

The civetone smell hangs on a long time. I can smell it on my clothes the next day. Historically, civetone was prized not just as a base note but for its fixative properties relative to other scents.

I'd been playing with civetone for several days either solo or with various other stuff but I started out with only civetone.

I don't know if I posted my observations yet, but here's what I've recorded before that happened. I suspect that my natural phero signature has amped up for whatever reason by the end.

[quote]
Start of day - I've smelled my sprayer which smells STRONGLY of civetone from my handling it, stronger than the mix inside. An older coworker ~40s or 50s starts up a conversation before I've sprayed it on saying I look happier than anyone has any right to be in the morning. (small amount of smell? Self effects? Or maybe I'm just sending off that vibe?)

No observed intimidation effects from application of a very diluted sample (20-60mcg) Slight back tenseness later in the day which I get from combining alpha mones with my anti-ADD supplement stack, but it could just be the stack working and not the mones.

One male coworker found me in my cubicle and started talking to me apropos of nothing. He seemed to be succeptible to -nols as well, though civetone worked over a longer range.

applied 40mcg - 120mcg.

Guys in lobby stop me for conversation out of the blue.

Chatted with a girl I get hummus from most days. I'd told her I'm married when I first met her, but I've used some Androstenone around her and I think it came off as a come on. She's dolled up in makeup today, which she never wears, said it was to hide the cold sores around her lips (she had a horrific outbreak a few weeks back.) Gives me a handshake and calls me her 'morning buddy' (like she's trying to fit me into a non-sexual category and was confused by the earlier Androstenone application?) Mentions she has two kids for the first time. They somehow never came up in conversation before. Very relaxed conversation, but nothing obviously mone-ish about it. Smooth. Very light preening gestures but not nessicarily indicative of a 'hit.'

Given how this stuff is used in female colognes, I wonder if it works better on men?

After gym going down escalator, leaned in towards girl in front of me. 30s. a little heavy, but not horendously so. Generally not overly attractive. One of the mall patrol. She does some strong preening gesture and glances back at me. I don't know if it was the smell or the invasion of space.

Given the speed after encounter that many seeming hits occurred and the apparent distance, I'm suspecting that this stuff has an effect on males and their body language, myself included, which makes us more approachable. Not sure of the effect on females, but I didn't notice any intimidation at the levels used.

Self effects include slight mood elevation and increased awareness of social stimuli, as well as a sort of mellow "in the moment" ness. But it's very hard to separate some of those effects, like increased awareness of social stimuli, from testing mones.

--12.129.211.97 22:11, 28 August 2012 (PDT)

coworker more talkative

girl at hummus shop who I've used a lot of mones with before... talked incessantly about religious issues like it had been rehearsed at points. (asking if reading a lot of books made a person smarter... then if I'd read the bible, etc. ) She may have had some other motivation as well. I think she was obliquely asking me for plane fare to see her grandma in el salvador. Not sure. She also asked if I'd ever dated a hispanic or if I was racist (not an accusation. more like eliminating objections in her mind) kindof weird

Easy friendly conversation with two girls at a health club early in the morning (about samsung lawsuit), one highly attractive wearing a low cut workout suit, another older. older woman mentioned her husband several times, as if deliberately signaling she was taken or something in that way that girls do. The whole thing had a sort of familiar, old friends feel to it.


After this point I start mixing other things in, which makes results less useful for single molecule testing. I believe I added Androstanone on the order of a few dozen nanograms I did get a strongly aversive reaction from one male apparently to the smell. But I don't know if the civetone was the cause or some other mone. I've started adding vanilla and orange EO to the mix, also. It smells like a good combo to me, but I have a terrible nose for such things. I can't smell most mones (except for civetone and beta Androsterone) and my sense of smell is less sensitive than most peoples.

Post: #22

Thanks.

This week I have been wearing Wolf with a little of my Damiana mix added.
The scents are very different but somehow compliment each other.
And I feel Wolf behaves not as usual with this addition.
But cannot really get what the difference is.

Will now order some Civetone

Post: #23

(09-23-2012 4:39 PM)20 Franc Wrote:  Thanks.

This week I have been wearing Wolf with a little of my Damiana mix added.
The scents are very different but somehow compliment each other.
And I feel Wolf behaves not as usual with this addition.
But cannot really get what the difference is.

Will now order some Civetone

Damiana? Interesting. Have you tried that on its own, or only with wolf? Can you say where you got the ingredients from?

Post: #24

The brand name is Health Aid.

I bought their Damiana essential oil on Ebay, but I've seen it other places, on UK sites.
Comes in a 5 ml bottle.

Seen Damiana essential oil from other brands too, but this one was the easiest to buy from Norway.
Have a look at the Etsy site too, I think there was something there.

I used way too many drops in the mix to have it work as a pheromone, I think.
Will try my next mix much more diluted.
This was one of my earlier projects, didn't have perfumers alcohol and used strong vodka instead.
I also had a little Canadian Catnip in there and some other oil.
It was meant as a scent, not a pheromone.
But both Catnip and Damiana are classified as aphrodisiacs.

Post: #25

Hey, I found your post interesting. Musk and civet are both found in Ruthvah...do a search...along with ambergris. This was supposidly used by Soloman and Alastair Crowley as an attractant for females. I have a book that says Clary Sage can sometimes induce pleasant, almost hallucinogenic states. I am still in the research phase prior to trying my hand at mixing my own blends. Andron by Jovan was indeed a KILLER scent! Seems all my favorites have been weakened and watered down or discontinued. Todays popular scents to me are weak, lacking character and just not MANLY enough. I dont want to smell like a muffin and a cup of coffee or an ocean breeze or a detergent soap or dryer sheet. Give me a scent with some balls! Its reported that Sean Connery wore Jicky which contaned civet. Alas, this too is a pale shadow of its former self. Please keep posting your findings. I appreciate your experimentation and information regarding your findings. Thanks!

Post: #26

Just perusing the older posts that are full of great insights and thoughts.

Here is a fun comparison by shape of Civetone and NONE.

If the Civetone folds or flaps it looks very similar.

Post: #27

BUMP....anyone still experimenting with muscs (often the animalic base note in countless perfumes; excellent for covering mones) as well as civetone (in many women's 'fumes, but also in some masculines i.e., Kouros from YSL (civit,musk bomb))?

Also, nobody is talking about castoreum (originally sourced from beaver glands) which are thought historically to have some aphrodisiac qualities. It was heavy in the original Chanel Antaeus pour Homme from the 80s, but the newer reformulated version has been seriously watered down...weak, no longevity even at multiple sprays!

I totally understand one listmate's laments on how the perfume industry has 'neutered' many male powerhouse classics opting instead on 'metrosexual' weakling scents which aren't masculine enough for the confident man.

Post: #28

Absolutely. But on the other hand, many modern aromachemicals also have powerful neuroactive effects - but not all are beneficial or "androgen/ic" in a broader sense.

Post: #29

I have Solomon's Attar from Apex.....Feels like a body high when I wear it...I've never smoked anything, but I felt very relaxed and floaty.

People definitely notice it....My wife thinks I smell when I wear it...She also says that with Androsterone.

Post: #30

"Musk odors are considered to be “king” of the fragrance world because of their warm, sensual, fascinating scent. They have been used widely in commercial products such as perfumes and detergents. The first natural musk compound, muscone, was reported in 1906 by Walbaum as the major odorant in secretions of musk deer (Moschus moschiferus) (Walbaum, 1906). Muscone turned out to have a unique macrocyclic ketone structure with a 15-membered ring (Ruzicka et al., 1926). Males secrete muscone, which in turn attracts females, suggesting that muscone is a male pheromone in musk deer. Some reports showed that, in humans, testosterone and estradiol levels increased after muscone exposure to female subjects, suggesting that muscone may have physiological effects also on humans (Kato et al., 2004, Fukui et al., 2007). Other muscone-like macrocyclic ketones with a 15- to 17-membered ring such as civetone and cyclopentadecanone have been identified from the stink glands of civet cat (Viverra civetta), musk rat (Ondatra zibethicus), and musk shrew (Suncus murinus) (Asada et al., 2012)."

Increase of Test and Estradiol should make for a very "aphrodisiac" effect, maybe even induce "hornyness". A pity, that the reference in question
Kato M, Y Tanaka H(2004) Study of the stimulation on the secretion of the female sex hormone by some perfumery raw material. Aroma Research 5:64–68
is not to be found on google scholar.

Muscone seems to have a lot of beneficial health-effects, especialy neuroprotective, and it wold cross the BBB:


Neuroprotective effect of muscone on glutamate-induced apoptosis in PC12 cells via antioxidant and Ca(2+) antagonism.
Yu L1, Wang N2, Zhang Y3, Wang Y4, Li J4, Wu Q4, Liu Y4.
Author information
Abstract
In the pathogenesis of cerebral ischemia, glutamate excitotoxicity activates N-methyl-d-aspartate (NMDA) receptors which induce calcium influx and oxidative stress. Muscone exerts potent neuroprotective activities on cerebral ischemia. However, its underlying mechanism is yet to be elucidated. In this study, we demonstrated that pretreatment with muscone in PC12 cells markedly ameliorated the loss of cell viability, mitochondrial membrane potential (MMP) collapse, the release of lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), Ca(2+) overload, reactive oxygen species (ROS) generation, and cell apoptosis induced by glutamate. Furthermore, muscone also decreased NR1 (NMDA receptor subunit 1) protein expression, the ratio of Bax/Bcl-2 protein expression and prevented activitation of Ca(2+)/calmodulin-dependent protein kinase type II (CaMKII) and ASK1/JNK/p38 signaling pathways elicited by glutamate in PC12 cells. In conclusion, our results provided novel evidence that muscone protected PC12 cells against glutamate-induced apoptosis by attenuating ROS generation and Ca(2+) influx, via NR1 and CaMKII-depended ASK-1/JNK/p38 signaling pathways.



Anti-inflammatory effects of 4-methylcyclopentadecanone on edema models in mice.
Ma Y, Li Y, Li X, Wu Y1.
Author information
Abstract
The present study evaluated the anti-inflammatory effects of 4-methylcyclopentadecanone (4-MCPC) on edema models in mice and aimed to determine the safety of 4-MCPC after acute exposure. The acute toxicity of 4-MCPC was evaluated by oral administration to rats of single doses of 0, 5, 50, 500 and 5000 mg/kg. Toxic symptoms were observed for 14 days. The anti-inflammatory activity was evaluated in xylene-induced mouse ear edema and carrageenan-induced mouse paw edema. The animals were treated with 4-MCPC once every day for seven consecutive days. Edema index, % inhibition, IL-1β, TNF-α, PGE2 and MPO levels in paws were detected after the treatment with xylene or carrageenan. Our results indicated that the LD50 value of 4-MCPC in rats is greater than 5000 mg/kg. The ED50 of 4-MCPC in xylene-induced mouse ear edema model was 7.5 mg/kg. 4-MCPC (8 or 16 mg/kg) remarkably inhibited carrageenan-induced mouse paw edema. Further study revealed that 4-MCPC treatment also decreased IL-1β, TNF-α, PGE2 and MPO levels in mice paws. Intragastric administration of 4-MCPC exhibited more significant anti-inflammatory activity than muscone at a dose of 16 mg/kg. Taken together, our results suggest that 4-MCPC has potent anti-inflammatory activity and the mechanisms might be related to the decreases of the levels of IL-1β, TNF-α, PGE2 and MPO in inflamed paws.




Muscone exerts protective roles on alcohol-induced osteonecrosis of the femoral head.
Guo YJ1, Luo SH2, Tang MJ1, Zhou ZB3, Yin JH4, Gao YS5, Dang XQ6.
Author information
Abstract
Long-term alcohol abuse causes musculoskeletal disorders, among of which, alcohol-induced osteonecrosis of the femoral head (ONFH) is of concern due to its significant and severe complications. A variety of methods have been attempted to prevent alcohol-induced ONFH, and monomers extracted from Chinese herbs might benefit the disease profoundly. In the current study, muscone, the main ingredient of musk, was used to prevent alcohol-induced ONFH. In vitro, ethanol was used to affect the potential of osteogenesis and proliferation of human bone mesenchymal stem cells (hBMSCs), and beneficial role of muscone was investigated on hBMSCs. In vivo, following the establishment of alcohol-induced ONFH, muscone was employed to treat the diseased rats, which were analyzed by micro-CT scanning and a series of histologic staining. As a result, we found ethanol could significantly suppress osteogenic differentiation of hBMSCs, while muscone held the potential to promote ALP activity and mRNA expressions of COL1 and OCN under ethanol treatment. Meanwhile, imaging analysis revealed muscone could restore BV/TV ratio and bone mineral density of the necrotic femoral head, and the protective role of muscone on alcohol-induced ONFH was further confirmed by histologic examinations. Our study confirmed the protective effect of muscone against alcohol-induced ONFH both in vitro and in vivo. Therefore, muscone may be considered as a valuable therapeutic natural drug for alcohol-induced ONFH in humans.


[Brain Protection of Muscone in Rats with Brain Injury].
[Article in Chinese]
Jiang T, Huang LF, Zhou SJ, Cui JJ, Ye Q.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:

To observe cerebral protective effect of muscone (nasal administration) on traumatic brain injury model rats.
METHODS:

SD rats were divided into the sham-operation group, the model group, and the treatment groups according to random digit table, 50 in each group. Traumatic brain injury model was established by controlled cortical strike. Rats in the sham-operation group received surgery and anesthesia procedures only, with no strike. Muscone (1.8 mg/kg) was delivered to rats in the treatment group using in situ nasal perfusion, 30 min each time, twice daily for 7 successive days. Water content of brain tissue was detected in each group before intervention (T1), at day 3 of intervention (T2), day 5 of intervention (T3), and after intervention (T4), respectively. Expression levels of brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and nerve growth factor (NGF) were detected using immunohistochemical analysis.
RESULTS:

Compared with the sham-operated group, water content of brain tissue increased (P < 0.05), and expression levels of NGF and BDNF decreased in the model group at T1, T2, T3, and T4 (P <0. 01). Compared with the model group, water content of brain tissue decreased (P < 0.05), and expression levels of NGF and BDNF increased (P < 0.01) in the treatment group at T1, T2, and T3.
CONCLUSION:
Nasal administration of muscone could reduce water content of brain tissue, alleviate cerebral edema, promote secretion of BDNF and NGF by olfactory ensheathing cells in traumatic brain injury rats.



All in all, Muscone seems like a worthwhile addition to a phero-blend, it's a powerful fixative and masks stinky steroids very well while transporting them. And it seems to be "good" for your brain as well