Post: #11

Yeah I'm surprised pheromone users are SUCH a TINY handful of people in the world. Like if all those big PUA gurus or dating gurus etc knew about this stuff... wow it would just be cake.

(08-25-2014 12:18 PM)thundr Wrote:  I have a hunch Androstadienone is a part of a negative feedback loop of the testosterone cycle in males.
Some even report a form of depression similar to low test levels in males. Me included in those reports. I feel very drained and tired after overuse of Androstadienone .

Androstadienone is a metabolite of testosterone and thus and end product of test utilization by the body. Waste product.

It makes sense that natural accumulation of these byproducts would trigger an innate "auto" regulation signal to "turn off" test production. If test is the precursor and Androstadienone is the waste, then its kinda like an overload failsafe valve. When the body reaches a critical level of these waste products it senses that it is time to regulate.

The body constantly strives for balance. We are adding Androstadienone artificially in larger doses than it is produced naturally so supports that we would reap larger feedback signals than normal.
Maybe the body senses a 30mcg app of Androstadienone and is like "oh shit oh shit shit I have to dial all this testosterone back some..."

Constant Androstadienone use when it begins to affect you:
The more you teach your body to sense this feedback signal the more it seems to become more efficient at reducing testosterone and thus enhancing the depressive effects.

I also have a hunch that the conversion of Androstadienone by body bacteria is part of this cycle as well. As the Androstadienone is consumed by bacteria it goes through a chemical change in which it becomes the bacterial metabolite androstenone.

I read once somewhere that males produce alot of Androstadienone during sleep. Perhaps the utilization of test for growth and repair creates more Androstadienone waste?
Either way it is well known that male testosterone levels are on average higher in the morning hours.

This leads me to speculate that certain olfactory mechanisms may be part of our natural hormone regulation system. The male produces more Androstadienone in sleep. Conversion to Androstenone. Does Androstenone upregulate male testosterone? We are working on that one, but early guess says yes.

I like to go a bit primal when looking into what things do.
Man works hard all day produces lots of test. Comes home at night tired. Eats, makes love to his woman, and rests. Gets up the next day and does it all over again.

There is a hormonal cycle behind the above and we as a community may have stumbled onto a part of olfactory hormone regulation not recognized by mainstream science. You mean to tell me that we as humans live in symbiosis with the bacteria that occupy our bodies?
Digestive research has already shown that we live in symbiosis with bacterial flora in our guts. That is how we digest fiber, lactose and even receive certain vitamins. It would be foolish to think we are not in the same symbiosis with the bacteria on our skin. I would bet my next paycheck that future antibiotics are alive. But now Im off topic.

All this is broscience and I can only make shots in the dark and educated guesses. These are just a mix of observations and experiences. Some guys get Androstadienone depression and some guys can wear 60mcg everyday with no issues. Other than a natural buffer of sorts I have no idea why this happens. Receptor sensitivity I assume.

We know mones work but alot of people do not think so. Therefore to the public our work here is instantly discredited and we are grouped into some novel area in their minds. Im good with that. More for us.

Post: #12

(08-25-2014 12:18 PM)thundr Wrote:  I have a hunch Androstadienone is a part of a negative feedback loop of the testosterone cycle in males.
Some even report a form of depression similar to low test levels in males. Me included in those reports. I feel very drained and tired after overuse of Androstadienone .

Androstadienone is a metabolite of testosterone and thus and end product of test utilization by the body. Waste product.

It makes sense that natural accumulation of these byproducts would trigger an innate "auto" regulation signal to "turn off" test production. If test is the precursor and Androstadienone is the waste, then its kinda like an overload failsafe valve. When the body reaches a critical level of these waste products it senses that it is time to regulate.

The body constantly strives for balance. We are adding Androstadienone artificially in larger doses than it is produced naturally so supports that we would reap larger feedback signals than normal.
Maybe the body senses a 30mcg app of Androstadienone and is like "oh shit oh shit shit I have to dial all this testosterone back some..."

Constant Androstadienone use when it begins to affect you:
The more you teach your body to sense this feedback signal the more it seems to become more efficient at reducing testosterone and thus enhancing the depressive effects.

I also have a hunch that the conversion of Androstadienone by body bacteria is part of this cycle as well. As the Androstadienone is consumed by bacteria it goes through a chemical change in which it becomes the bacterial metabolite androstenone.

I read once somewhere that males produce alot of Androstadienone during sleep. Perhaps the utilization of test for growth and repair creates more Androstadienone waste?
Either way it is well known that male testosterone levels are on average higher in the morning hours.

This leads me to speculate that certain olfactory mechanisms may be part of our natural hormone regulation system. The male produces more Androstadienone in sleep. Conversion to Androstenone. Does Androstenone upregulate male testosterone? We are working on that one, but early guess says yes.

I like to go a bit primal when looking into what things do.
Man works hard all day produces lots of test. Comes home at night tired. Eats, makes love to his woman, and rests. Gets up the next day and does it all over again.

There is a hormonal cycle behind the above and we as a community may have stumbled onto a part of olfactory hormone regulation not recognized by mainstream science. You mean to tell me that we as humans live in symbiosis with the bacteria that occupy our bodies?
Digestive research has already shown that we live in symbiosis with bacterial flora in our guts. That is how we digest fiber, lactose and even receive certain vitamins. It would be foolish to think we are not in the same symbiosis with the bacteria on our skin. I would bet my next paycheck that future antibiotics are alive. But now Im off topic.

All this is broscience and I can only make shots in the dark and educated guesses. These are just a mix of observations and experiences. Some guys get Androstadienone depression and some guys can wear 60mcg everyday with no issues. Other than a natural buffer of sorts I have no idea why this happens. Receptor sensitivity I assume.

We know mones work but alot of people do not think so. Therefore to the public our work here is instantly discredited and we are grouped into some novel area in their minds. Im good with that. More for us.

Wow, thank you for your thoughts.
I already saw people having the same thesis as you. If you're right, a dienone depression may be an indication for having normal low test levels, right?
How does the body detect the high dienone? Through skin/bloodstream or inhalation?

Post: #13

Considering all that has been said. I'm wondering, can I raise my testosterone levels by being exposed to Androstenone constantly?

Could my mind tell the difference if I'm exposing myself to Androstenone by actually wearing something like Evolve oil on myself, as opposed to putting Evolve oil on a paper, and keeping that next to me all day?

Post: #14

(08-25-2014 12:18 PM)thundr Wrote:  I have a hunch Androstadienone is a part of a negative feedback loop of the testosterone cycle in males.
Some even report a form of depression similar to low test levels in males. Me included in those reports. I feel very drained and tired after overuse of Androstadienone .

Androstadienone is a metabolite of testosterone and thus and end product of test utilization by the body. Waste product.

Here is a post from monesmadedoit from the Androtics forum. This topic comes up once in a while (

monesmadedoit;514992 Wrote:Not to contradict Mobo. I can only offer you my own personal reports. I reported this on P75 in my journal. I do believe it can, possibly via GnRH and positive hypothalmic feedback. Kohl, despite some controversies on -Androstenone, wrote the first major consumer book on mones many years ago. His entire career has been devoted pretty much to Scent of Eros and the theory that alpha nol and androsterone are attractive to women because they show a rise in their bodies of GnRH or LH. I think he has a blog. He's Never reluctant to talk about Androsterone, nol and GnRH. It's not a proven fact. But hey, get his book. Good primer on pheromones. People ask these questions all the time. This free reading below is my standard reply. I'm not interested in starting a total sh*tstorm as happened on another thread. I can only say that he is a published author. I'd love to have him here, but I guess maybe he does his own thing now.

We do have LadyScientist here, almost a qualified doctor, so maybe she'll chime in.

"The LH and T estosterone response to olfactory/pheromonal input has been repeatedly indicated or reported in findings from non-human animal studies and from human studies."

Note that this is probably a temporary response. Similar studies, I think, saw elevated T response to female copulins. If you stop using P75, the effects go away. Others (and me) have reported that P78 makes them ridiculously horny. The only hypothesis I can offer is phero binding to olfactory receptors and subsequent endocrine/androgen/ T output. Something is pushing the horny button in the brain. That would be T, which is why guys take Low T treatments for ED. The treatments are not curative. They don't permanently restore Low T. Pheromones are hormone metabolites, so, theoretically, you'd have higher T metabolites.

So, again, test reports are highly subjective. I would encourage you to research not only his papers but also critical works that cite his and those he cites. He does not think -Androstenone is a pheromone, although that is a very minority view among product users. He did invent Scent of Eros (one of the earliest commercial mones) based upon that research. I'm saying look at the evidence and explore the topic. I'm not a scientist, so I can only quote my own findings and readings.

James V. Kohl: The Mind's Eyes: Human Pheromones, Neuroscience, and Male Sexual Preferences

As far as PUA's, they believe that pheromones are malarky (Thank God!). I was a PUA and I can tell you firsthand that they don't believe in pheromones at all. The do believe in "The Mystery Method", NLP and running sets.