Post: #1

I was kinda thinking about this the other day. How do phermones effect our fertility & sperm quality? They definitely affect our testosterone levels in a way. But doing some research online I found that actually T supplement scan block sperm production resulting in infertility or a low sperm count.

EST products definitely lower fertility level, but what about None dominant or A1 products. Tried using the search bar but haven't found anything.

What do you guys think? Can pheromones products have a negative effect on our fertility?

Post: #2

Cops increase T levels in men, I think that is proven.
The self effects of some products at least feel like increased T: more dominant behavior, more aggression, higher risk tolerance (I had multiple times this "Ups, you are driving over 100 miles per hour again" moments). I observed the dopaminergic effects of joy anticipation which could come from testosterone. So I think pheromones can increase testosterone.
However, the endocrine system is highly regulated, so the question is, how the body reacts to chronic over stimulation? Will it down regulate the endogenous testosterone production? While it is, imho, proven, that exogenous testosterone reduces the endogenous testosterone production, I rather think that pheromones don't have this effect. As a halfway tournamental species (i.e. one in which males compete for females - the andogens of other males, i.e. pheromones, should rather push your own sperm production. This should be the path if you consider sperm competition, which is a proven fact in humans (less than in chimps but more than in gorillas)
Was that T supplement that reduces the sperm count actually exogenous testosterone? That would make sense via the homeostasis effect, i.e. the body that wants to maintain its hormonal equilibrium.

Post: #3

(04-25-2022 1:22 PM)Marcus Antonius Wrote:  Cops increase T levels in men, I think that is proven.
The self effects of some products at least feel like increased T: more dominant behavior, more aggression, higher risk tolerance (I had multiple times this "Ups, you are driving over 100 miles per hour again" moments). I observed the dopaminergic effects of joy anticipation which could come from testosterone. So I think pheromones can increase testosterone.
However, the endocrine system is highly regulated, so the question is, how the body reacts to chronic over stimulation? Will it down regulate the endogenous testosterone production? While it is, imho, proven, that exogenous testosterone reduces the endogenous testosterone production, I rather think that pheromones don't have this effect. As a halfway tournamental species (i.e. one in which males compete for females - the andogens of other males, i.e. pheromones, should rather push your own sperm production. This should be the path if you consider sperm competition, which is a proven fact in humans (less than in chimps but more than in gorillas)
Was that T supplement that reduces the sperm count actually exogenous testosterone? That would make sense via the homeostasis effect, i.e. the body that wants to maintain its hormonal equilibrium.

Valid point but what if your body interpretes this sort of stimulation not as yourself but as other males. I think I read somewhere that less dominant/ subordinate males produce a lesser amount of sperm. Yeah I beliee it was exogenous testosterone.

Post: #4

(04-26-2022 3:55 AM)TracerX Wrote:  I think I read somewhere that less dominant/ subordinate males produce a lesser amount of sperm.

Might be, a source is always good of course to see what was found on what level of significance and in what species. I would be surprised if that have been studies in humans.

But in the best case that's an correlation not a causation. The question is: "What is cause and what is effect?" It could be that males with less testosterone are less seeking for dominance (I think this is established), avoid taking risks (established) and for many reasons are less dominant. And maybe their testicles not only release less testosterone but also producing less sperms. It could be that both the reduced sperm and the reduced dominance seeking behaviour is a result of the reduced testosterone, which could be itself a result of high stress, bad nutrition, no exercise, hormonal disruptors etc.

On the question if the mone signature is received as "self" or "non-self": Do you get scared yourself if you put on a heavy "alpha" mone like BW, AV, AM or Primitive? Most, me included, describe self effects of euphoric, "king of the world", "bad ass", invincible, dominant etc. That didn't sound like we feel submissive or suppressed by other more dominant males.

The brain does some interpretation which then has a severe effect on the hormonal response. In a sport competition the testosterone levels may rise or fall depending on the perceived outcome of the event.
In here this is in depth discussed (Dr. Robert Sapolsky: Science of Stress, Testosterone & Free Will | Huberman Lab Podcast #35)

If you are interested in the science of testosterone this is a good starting point.

So my feeling is this: If you shift T levels by lifestyle (mostly resistance exercise, sleep, stress management but also "state of mind") than the body has a new "setpoint". If you keep the low-T "setpoint", and just add exogenous testosterone, than the body will keep homostasis and reduce the own T production to stay at this setpoint. Exogenous testosterone was even studied as male contraceptive...

I would not be too afraid of pheromeones. The dosage is much lower than what some folks take as pills. I have Androstene-3,6,17-trione as a 20 mg pill. As a pheromone you would use 20 µg, i.e. a 1/1000 of that dose, so 1 capsule is fine for many many sprays. GoergeFocky described the usage of Ecdysterone in the 100 µg magnitude, while you can by capsules at Ebay with 500 mg in it. Same for Androstenedione and Androstenediol and DEAH, all are / have been used orally in the 100 mg / day order of magnitude. All pheromones are used in the 10 - 100 µg range.

But you can measure your T levels and see how they develop.