Post: #11

(11-09-2016 1:47 PM)GoergeFocky Wrote:  I disagree that only becuase the same endogenous substances are involved you would can call fear and excitement the same, or that they are the same - they are not and there are still vast physiological differences between the two states, and the moment these very physiological settings that are fear or excitement, the very moment you feel either one of these emotions, you cannot simply transform them by being conscious or mindful of them. When it happened, it happened, but mindfulness will allow you to control both states better and initiate a change.

I may be misunderstanding your argument, so let me know if I am arguing against the wrong points.

I agree that fear and excitement are different, and that the physiological differences prove this out. However, when we look at it systematically, the situation begins with a stimulus. In my example above, we have a roller coaster. Generally, no one rides a roller coaster with no reaction. Some experience fear, and others excitement. The local inputs are all the same, and it is the individual's reaction to the stimuli which determines which state they enter. Other similar examples would be public speaking, approaching a beautiful woman, or parachuting.

Post: #12

Certainly. The same situation/stimulus causes fear or excitement in any individual. I wanted to negate the claim that becuase the same endogneous substances are involved these emotions are a sort of an interchangable power, like in thermodynamics, that can be transformed by will alone. It's not the case - as your examples suggest: You are afraid or you are excited - if one could measure or compare every physilogical action, firing of neurons, substances being produced/reduced and so on .. we would find that there are the same substances involved but in very different quantities and mechanism. Contant fear will shrink your brain and kill you, excitement will be beneficial for a long while. Di- and Eustress respectively, broadly put.
I don't know where MetalTree read that stuff, but those are the popular- or better pseudoscientif stuff you find in any sort of magazines, written by authors that are untrained in the field.

Post: #13

Then what explains the transformation of reaction in long-time sufferers of fears? Overcoming fear of rollercoasters (I did that), parachuting, public speaking, spiders, heights, etc. I have trouble agreeing with the theory that "you get used to it" because for some, the fear is present for many years until they consciously exercise their will to change the reaction.

Post: #14

Some coping mechanism - if the individual is resilient enough or outside factors that caused a chronic negatve situation change for the better.

DHEA is a good example and phero-related. In patients with chronic major depression that managed remission, DHEA levels are elevated, cortisol down. DHEA is a major player in reducing cortiosol levels. High DHEA also leads to a modulation of neurons and glia-cells and changes the connection between the amygdala and the hippocampus as well as modulating the emotional impact of memory, leading in the long run to a normalization of DHEA/cortisol levels.

In other individuals, this coping mechanism fails. DHEA stays up, cortisol down, leadig to anhedonia and loss of motivation, changing the brain and subsequent physiological parameters for the worse.

It depends on your physiological "abilities" and outside factors if you would cope wit chronic stress or fear or if you get impaired by it.
To overcome some minor anxiety like fear of a rollercoaster it takes reflection and the example sof others. Someday you sit at home thnking: "next time I'm at Kiddyland I'll ride that coaster, everyone does, can't be that terrible" and if you do and do again you break the fear-pattern. But that indicates that something else has also changed in you, most probably in your age, you simply grow up which corellates with endocrine and neuroendocrine changes. As we grow up we face and manage situations that we could not before, like going to school first time unattended or making a long train ride. It's normal, not something extraordinary - and we feel good afterwards, turning dis- in eustress. But still, fear and excitement are not the same and that there are the same substances at play does not mean that it is guranteed to overcome fear. It's a banality, stating that there are the same substances involve, it's the nature of things

Post: #15

Thank you for the explanation.

Post: #16

Best way to turn fear into excitement I've found is graded exposure. Talk to enough women whilst constantly upping the escalation, and your approach anxiety will eventually turn into excitement as you overcome your inhibitions.

There's a great book called The Confidence Gap by Russ Harris if anyone wants to explore how mindfulness and a little rational emotive behaviour therapy can help in doing this, but the gist is as follows (these are my notes from the book).

THOUGHTS

The aim here is to be mindful of your thoughts and to defuse them. Not to challenge them while they are happening (you can do this later) not to try to replace them with positive thoughts (this won't work). Defusion works as follows:

1. Notice it
2. Name it
3. Neutralise it

Firstly you need to be aware of what is actually going on in your head. When you are experiencing high levels of anxiety, there is a series of thoughts that are taking place in your mind that are creating it. Naming this thought alows you to put a little emotional distance between you and these thoughts. E.g., "I am having the thought that I am going to die because my heart is beating so fast." Neutralising it means to simply let the thought go. Naming it is usually enough, but you can also repeat the thought back in a silly voice, imagine the volume diminishing into nothing, or, if your thoughts are more visual, visualise the picture fading out, getting smaller etc. It takes practice, but eventually it becomes as quick as thinking.

FEELINGS

The first thing to realise is that strong feelings are not dangerous, and you do not need to control what you feel to do what you want or to act on your values. Secondly, performance is not related to anxiety levels. Everyone in an exam hall is amxious, but those who do best are the ones who can engage fully in the task without being distracted by thoughts and feelings. The aim in this step is not to try to get rid of unpleasant feelings but to accomodate them. The steps are as follows

N - Notice feelings
A - Acknowledge
M - Make space
E - Expand awareness

1. Notice where fear/feeling shows up in body. If it's a dropping feeling in the pit of your stomach, what shape would it take if you outlined the borders of the feeling? How much space does it take up in yur body? Are there parts in the shape where the feelings are more dense than others? The feelings might not disappear completely, but your curiosity and open engagement will help to reduce them.

2. Acknowledge. Use simple self-talk. "Here is a feeling of fear" or "I notice a feeling of fear in my stomach" etc. THis is to realise you are not your feelings and that feelings are transient events.

3. Make room. Breathe into and around the feeling, psychologically open up and make room for it. Breath makes us present and drop the struggle of trying to change the feeling. This step is easier to do than it is to explain it, but it's the feelings equivalent of thought defusion - instead of believing that you are going to die because you're having palpitations, you realise this is just one thought in an ocean of thoughts (but for feelings).

4. Expand awareness. Continue to notice the feeling and simultaneously connect with the world around you. If you're scared of flying and the plane is just taking off, be aware of your fear and how it manifests in your body, but also be aware of how small the world looks as you ascend, the aftertaste of that overpriced sandwich you ate at the airport in your mouth, and most importantly, look around for any hot birds you might want to chat up while your waiting in the queue for passport control.

A

Post: #17

Thanks for writing that down, soild advice

Post: #18

What if people are attracted to danger, because fear of danger causes excitement? What if people purposely make themselves appear more dangerous than they are to gain attraction? What if people project the opposite sex as more dangerous and scarier than they are to excite themselves?

Post: #19

(11-03-2016 2:57 PM)metaltree Wrote:  Lately I've been reading that fear and excitement involve the exact same chemicals in the body. It is what we do with our mind that makes the two emotions different.

Has anyone in this forum been able to change their mental focus in such a way where they have been able to transform fear/anxiety into excitement?

This post is in the club house for off topic conversations but I do have a pheromone need. When I apply Androstenone I feel strong butterflies in my stomach and I feel very anxious and unsettled. I'm wondering if there is a way that I can use my mind to transform this anxious feeling into a feeling of excitement and pleasure.

OFF TOPIC ... kinda sorta.

About 25 years ago, I ran across this very topic. So, I tested it out to get laid with ALL of my girlfriends every since. It worked 70 percent of the time.

Watched a horror movie while holding them close/cuddling/spooning. Scared them right out of their panties!

I said all that to say, YEP! Fear and Excitement --- YEP! THEY'RE VERY SIMILAR, IF NOT ONE IN THE SAME.

Post: #20

That would explain why BW can be so attractive. The fear molecule...

(01-17-2017 10:38 PM)Shyguy1337 Wrote:  What if people are attracted to danger, because fear of danger causes excitement? What if people purposely make themselves appear more dangerous than they are to gain attraction? What if people project the opposite sex as more dangerous and scarier than they are to excite themselves?